JohnP now that sounds like it would work without having to use a lot of electronics like you say. Im trying to keep my project plain and simple with very little components. I was looking at wookies forward /reverse / off motor driven circuit see it here ---> http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=37373&d=1323202412

which can work as well, but now I like your idea about the "crank rocker" mechanism with less electrical components.

I would still like to add a "Random timing circuit" where when the target is knocked down it won't immediately pop up but instead pop up at a random time between 3 to 10 seconds.

If i have a simple 2 wire geared DC motor how can i wire it up for this configuration along with the Random 3 to 10 second timer?



RJ

 

I wonder if you couldn't just use a motor turning slowly all the time with a cam that resets the target, if it's down. The randomness is not in the motor circuitry but in the time the target goes down relative to the rotation of the cam. It might reset immediately or have to wait for the next rotation bump. I think you could even use one motor with multiple cams to reset multiple targets at different times, so that they don't all pop up at once.

Just thinking out loud.

 

Post # 21: With one switch to indicate finish of cycle & a second one to detect a fallen target, the random delay starts with the fall. Delay could be a pair of 555's & 4017, giving 10 settable delays, each output has a diode & resistor. The end of the delay starts a target reset.

 

Wayneh I like the idea can you provide a animated video of what you have in mind? Or email a link to a YouTube video of something similar?


Bernard can you supply a schematic diagram so I can put it on a breadboard and put it to the test?


RJ

 

It sounds to me as if Wayneh's suggestion involves an opportunity to set up the target which occurs once every 10 seconds. It's only "random" in the sense that the target might be hit anywhere in the interval between 3 seconds and the full 10. A user could be counting seconds and know that the target will come up 10 or 20 or 30 seconds after the last time. Maybe that's OK but I think it should be less predictable than that. Also, how is the minimum 3sec time enforced?

An animated video for a suggestion of how to build someone else's project is asking for a lot.

 

The single direction rotation I believe they are speaking of would be that of a crankshaft out of a lawnmower or similar. It would turn about a center axis, but the "lobe" would push the target back up at random times, depending on where the lobe was when it fell.

The air system is cool if you have valves and a compressed air supply. I didn't catch the "pellet", and was thinking .22LR or larger targets, such as silhouettes, which do need a good push.

A PICAXE controller can be programmed to put each of the pins high or low at random amount of time on each pin. $5 solution for the "Chip", needs just a serial port 2 resistors, and a cable you can make yourself to program it in basic.

 

JohnP im just asking for references or examples in how to build this "target project"

thatoneguy im not familiar with micro-controllers if I was id go with a micro-controller. I do know how to build circuits but no nothing about programming, Im more of a hardware guy. Not too knowledgeable on programming. How difficult is it to program it with a PICAXE controller? I can take care of the electronics hardware if i can get a guide or a schematic. Im not a designer or an engineer I just have a 2 year degree in electronics and do know how to build circuits but not design them. Again I do know how to build electronic circuits on breadboards without a problem but don't know anything about electronics design.

I found a box of goodies of 24V air valves, air cylinders, hoses, CO2 air tank, air compressor I had from previous projects that I can use. Id like to make up to 12 independent pop up targets on the same set up platform. How many channels is the PICAXE?

I have a combination of single and double action air cylinders I even have some cylinders that are single action but with a built in spring that retracts to its back position automatically.

I think im going to go with air cylinders and valves on this one instead of using geared DC motors, since the air cylinders and air valves I have are weather proof are more powerful and don't require a lot of limit switches or reverse driver polarities.


Does anyone know of a PCB out there already built with built in relays set up to do this that I can purchase online already made?


I can't wait to complete this project, building the circuit from scratch seems more complicated than I thought so I was just wondering if I can buy the circuit already made. All I will have to do is hook up up my 24V electric valves to the circuit. I have the mechanics squared away, I just need the electronic circuit board with the relays. I've figured that using air valves all I will need is a single switch that will detect when the target is down. I think a "ONE-SHOT" circuit with a "RANDOM COUNTER" is all I will need but need 12 channels since I want to do 12 targets on a single platform. Wondering if there is a Multi-Channnel PCB out with built in relays that can do this that I can just buy outright online.


Any suggestions?


RJ

 

The program for the PICAXE 20M2 (17 Outputs) would be roughly this:

(change status of 8 lines high or low every 5 seconds)

No inputs to know if a target is down or not, so it randomly cycles them (perfect if you don't have a pull-back setup).

Drive relays through transistors or MOSFETS (Lots of topics on that, search forum for "PIC transistor output")

This bit only cycles port B (right 8 pins of PICAXE), Adding PORTC would give you 7 more outputs, similar code, just add the random for the outputs there as well.

Everything you need for PICAXE is here

The PICAXE editor/simulator is a free download.

#picaxe20M2

; More info at:http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=77919
; 
;  This code may be re-used, modified, and shared by anybody, as long as  the information and credits above are not altered or removed.
; Please post improved code ideas and updates to a thread in the electronics chat area of allaboutcircuits.com
; Have fun, remember to wear eye and hearing protection when shooting!



;declarations
dirsB=$FF  ; All port B pins to outputs
pinsB = %00000000 ' Reset all port B Pins to 0

;variables
symbol delaytime = w0  'delaytime variable  random requires word variables
symbol outs = b10     ' outputs

;main loop
main:

delaytime = $10        ;seed random number generator w/timer variable
random delaytime      ; get random number between 0 and 65535
delaytime = delaytime % 7000  ; Mod 7000 to get number between 0 and 7000
delaytime = delaytime + 3000  ;add 3000 for 3-10second delaytime

pause delaytime              ;wait 3-10 seconds

random delaytime         ; get new random number for output states
outs = delaytime/256    ;use first 8 bits of delaytime word for random port b outputs
pinsB= outs           ;set portC pins high or low psuedo-random
goto main               ; keep doing it until power is removed.

 

Thanks "thatoneguy" but this is all foreign to me. If you know of anyone who can do the program and the PCB board for me with the 12 channels I will buy it from them. I need the outputs to drive 24 VDC relays. It would be great if it had a trigger for the 12 independent channels. Basically if the target is not down there is no need to activate the relay or solenoid valve.


How can you send a PM (private message) or email someone directly in this forum? Im new to this forum so don't know how to send private messages or direct emails.


RJ

 

Click on a user name, if they have messages enabled, you'll see an option for "Send Private Message".

There is also a Flea Market sub-forum here you can put a "Wanted to buy" ad.

Specify the power source, enclosure, environment (temp/humidity/moisture extremes) and type of output (switch or voltage and current source, etc). The result will likely be a proto board for a "one off" at a lower cost, etching a board is usually for more intricate parts, or when a smaller size is needed.

If the above code is what you are looking for, adding the 7 ports on PortC is pretty straightforward, so it would just be a matter of somebody putting it on a breadboard and making the outputs compatible with your needs.

The one downside to the snippet above is the fact that there isn't a method to check if a target is down, so if a double action cylinder was being used, the targets would be moving up and down without being hit. It would work if the push up mechanism retracted after setting target back up, then it would randomly be extended again.

Details such as that you'll need to decide on and put in the wanted thread, possibly with a link to this thread. There are a lot of people around looking for a hobby project, there are a dozen ways to skin a cat, and the bit above is but one.

 

As you requested: Assuming an air cylendar that will rapidly bleed off after actuation, the attached thumb might work. U1 free runs, stepping U2 thru 10 steps. When target falls, SW [ burried in the mud above U3 ], momentarily closes, triggering one shot U3, which puts a hi on U2-13, clock enable, stopping count but not resetting U2. U3 times out, time depending on which step was active. At the end op output pulse from U3, U4 , one shot, is triggered, about 1 sec. turning on air valve, resetting target .

 

Bernard. Nice circuit. Send me a PM

 

If you are going to use a cylinder, why not use a GM power door lock actuator? They look like this one - http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Univers...pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr

They work like an air cylinder without the need to supply an air tank and hoses. They can be found in any wrecking yard too.

 

Shortbus. I use to install aftermarket car alarms in vehicles years back and that is the actuator I used to convert mechanical door locks into electric door locks. The thing with those is that the stroke distance is only about an inch 1" or so and I need about a 3" inch stroke. If you know of a mechanisms to stand up a target vertical using a 1" inch stroke action let me know how I would do the mechanism to accomplish this, If i can get the mechanism made that way then i can use these 1" stroke electric actuators.



RJ

 

A one in stroke, if it has enough force, can easily lift the target. A wild thought: Assume a non linear pulley with a flexable cable attached. At start of lift, pulley has max diameter, near top, dia. maybe 1/3 where little torque needed. Total pull is one inch. Return is by spring.

 

Shortbus. I use to install aftermarket car alarms in vehicles years back and that is the actuator I used to convert mechanical door locks into electric door locks. The thing with those is that the stroke distance is only about an inch 1" or so and I need about a 3" inch stroke. If you know of a mechanisms to stand up a target vertical using a 1" inch stroke action let me know how I would do the mechanism to accomplish this, If i can get the mechanism made that way then i can use these 1" stroke electric actuators.



RJ

That all has to do with the distance from the hinge point. If I was doing this I wouldn't have the target fall all the way flat, just put a stop/bumper so it falls just enough to not be seen. No need to move it a full ninety degrees.

And with these actuators you would only need to power it in one direction, the target falling would take care of the other direction. Makes the circuit simpler too.

You could even make it so hitting one target would make another one pop up, just by a switch on the down position.

 

OK Bernard I understand the mechanical diagram now. I will try this with a 1" stroke electric GM door lock actuator.

Shortbus Thanks for the Input.


Does anyone know of a PCB kit that I can buy online just outright that has the electronics Im looking for? If I cannot find this soon im just going to go with a 12 channel RF remote with 12 RF receivers and just stand up my targets by RF remote control manually.

Im willing to pay someone to design and build me this 12 channel random circuit on a prototype board. PM me if you have a solution and can have one built for me.



RJ.

 

Here is an almost completed schematic diagram of the circuit for the "Automatic Pop-Up target project" View user member "thatoneguy" source code for the program on PICAXE

 

Schematic needs a power supply for the 24V to 5V supply for PICAXE.

Needs a 100k, 10 turn (or multiturn) Potentiometer with wiper connected to PICAXE 20M2 pin 3, one leg to V+, other leg to GND. This will provide a user with a method to adjust the delays once system is in place.

Here is the code for PICAXE with 12 outputs, 20M2 pins 7-18 randomly changing based on setting of multiturn potentiometer attached to port C.7 (20M2 pin 3)

#picaxe20M2

; More info at:http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=77919
; 
;  This code may be re-used, modified, and shared by anybody, as long as  the information and credits above are not altered or removed.
; Please post improved code ideas and updates to a thread in the electronics chat area of allaboutcircuits.com
; Have fun, remember to wear eye and hearing protection when shooting!



;declarations
dirsB=$FF  ; All port B pins to outputs (20M2 pins 11-18)
dirsC=$0F  ; first 4 ports of port C as outputs (20M2 pins 7-10)
pinsB = %00000000 ' Reset all port B Pins to 0
pinsC=$00        ' Reset all port C outputs to 0

;variables
symbol delaytime = w0  'delaytime variable  random requires word variables
symbol outs = b10     ' outputs
symbol adjust = b11    ' Potentiometer connected to C.7 (20M2 pin 3) to adjust delays

;main loop
main:

readadc c.7,adjust    ' Pot connected between V+ and Gnd, wiper connected to C.7 (20M2 pin 3).  Used for adjusting random timing.
adjust = adjust * 100   ' make 0-254 number 0-25400 


delaytime = $10        ;seed random number generator 
random delaytime      ; get psuedo random number between 0 and 65535
delaytime = delaytime % 7000  ; Mod 7000 to get number between 0 and 7000
'delaytime = delaytime + 3000  ;add 3000 for 3-10second delaytime
delaytime = delaytime + adjust ; add user chosen delaytime to delay.

pause delaytime              ;pause for 0-26,100 milliseconds (0-26 seconds)

random delaytime         ; get new random number for output states
outs = delaytime/256    ;use first 8 bits of delaytime word for random port b outputs
pinsB= outs           ;set portB pins high or low psuedo-random (20M2 pins 11-18)

random delaytime         ; get new random number for output states
outs = delaytime/512    ;use last 4 bits of delaytime word for random port c outputs
pinsC= outs           ;set portC pins high or low psuedo-random (20M2 pins 7-10)

goto main               ; keep doing it until power is removed.

 

Looking for some ideas and suggestions in different combinations to do the mechanical part now utilizing the pneumatic air cylinders. "Bernard" gives and draws one perfect example of how the mechanics can be applied, where he mentions in his drawing the non-linear pulley with a flexible cable. What I have in hand for this project are 1" inch and 3" inch single action air cylinders with spring return to work with. I seen mechanism example projects of Halloween props lifts but these mechs are a bit large.

Anyone with mechanical ideas please post links, videos or images to review, this way I can complete this project and put it all together in one piece.



Id like to keep the mechanical platform simple, reliable, durable and compact.

The prototype I am doing is to lift a steel target designed for .22 cal pellets or .22 LR ammo but I want the mechanism (steel target) to be versatile and swap-able with thicker steel to be used with higher caliber ammo as well.


RJ