Depressing Development

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Papabravo, Jan 17, 2014.

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  1. Papabravo

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    Feb 24, 2006
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  2. PackratKing

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    I read through most of the offerings in the link. that is before I started to see red...:mad:

    Didn't all this BeeEss with China start shortly after Nixon awarded " Most Favored Nation " status to China ???

    For now, I am too angry to comment further...
     
  3. Papabravo

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    In my estimation it has nothing to do with China, but the onslaught of the global economy. It is part of a larger trend to use technology to drive down wages and costs. This is corporations engaged in eating their own seed corn. For 40 years, wages and salaries adjusted for inflation have been on a downward trend. This destruction of productive capacity is intrinsic to our system, and higher education is no real defense. Can we imagine a society where only a small fraction of the population is actually employed?
     
  4. alfacliff

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    I depressed myself the other day, my son and I were in a hooters, and I said to myself " where were all these pretty gals when I was young and single"? then it hit me, not born yet.
     
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  5. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    Yes, and we apparently don't have enough engineers in the US so immigration reform is happening at the same time...

    The final Senate bill would expand the number of H-1B visas that allow U.S. tech companies to bring foreign workers here temporarily. Labor advocates have long maintained that unfettered guest worker programs have a way of depressing wages for American workers while exposing foreign ones to exploitation. The Senate bill does include labor-backed protections pertaining to the tech sector, but experts say those provisions were largely undone by loopholes added through amendments backed by Silicon Valley.
    Close watchers of the visa programs say the final bill was a rout for the tech industry. Policy experts can debate whether the influx of H-1B visas will ultimately help or hurt U.S. workers, but in the end the tech companies won their visa expansion without the concessions that other industries submitted to.

    "It was pretty much a landslide," said Daniel Costa, director of immigration law and policy research at the left-leaning Economic Policy Institute. "The industry got everything. They got way higher [visa] numbers with few protections in there."

    From:
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/senate-immigration-bill-visa-tech-companies_n_3529241.html
     
  6. Papabravo

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    Many of us pursue electronics as a hobby and these issues are of little concern to those whose income is derived from another source. Others have electronics as both a hobby and a vocation. These issues are of immense concern. What is clear is that technology companies are acting in their own self interest, with little concern for either the blue collar or white collar workers.

    I offer three defensive rules for anyone contemplating a career in technology.
    1. If you didn't get it writing, you didn't get it.
    2. If you didn't get it up front, you didn't get it.
    3. If you don't get what you need/want, leave. Today if necessary.
     
  7. alfacliff

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    back in the late 70's when I was working for NCR, the expanded in Wichita to the acounting computer division, designed the boards, and chips for the accojunting computer we were building. most of our engineers were named Patel, and came from India or Pakistan,. turned out they were planning a new factory there.
     
  8. bountyhunter

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    Sep 7, 2009
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    China is a huge influence. In autos and most consumer products, they are a huge market that is growing at an exponential rate. Many companies here (like National Semi) reacted by hiring only Chinese nationals as engineers over the last 15 years, although they had finished their degrees here in the US. The point is they want engineers who are fluent in Chinese and have family roots there.... and of course, the fact they work for half what US engineers are paid is a big plus.

    Also, design and development centers are being outsourced to take advantage of the ridiculously low wages in the area compared to US.
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  9. bountyhunter

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    Absolutely true, but most people do not realize how bad it is. Visa workers have to be sponsored by their employer which requires paperwork, so they can not easily change jobs. Hence, they are the new class of "indentured servants" and they accept crap wages because of it. In many cases, poor English skills also weakens their ability to interview and contributes.

    Another reality: it's a small world here in Silicon valley and the power brokers stick together. I actually saw cases of Indian or Viet namese buddies I had that quietly got better jobs at another company and turned in their resignation..... and the head of the company we worked for made a few phone calls and found out where they were going and got the jobs pulled. Yes, that really happens.

    Worst of all, the companies here have abused the H1-B visa system for decades. It's a big joke.

    http://teamsternation.blogspot.com/...as-to-hire-cheap-labor-and-offshore-jobs.html

    http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/s...o-get/abuse-of-the-h-1b-program-is-widespread

    http://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/...outsourcers/VAg6o9KgS2tuoZ3WbmaqeK/story.html

    http://programmersguild.org/docs/h1...ml#1)_H-1B_visa_used_to_drive_down_U.S._wages

    http://betanews.com/2012/10/25/h-1b-visa-abuse-limits-wages-and-steals-us-jobs/

    http://www.inc.com/eric-markowitz/are-h1bs-just-a-clever-trick-for-cheap-labor.html

    http://www.cringely.com/2013/07/18/so-thats-how-h-1b-visa-fraud-is-done/
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2014
  10. nsaspook

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  11. tcmtech

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    Unfortunately if anyone was to look at how our societies are going whether up or down on a historical scale everything is business as usual.

    No matter how far back you go there is always one culture or society that is eclipsing another that was at one time at the top in some aspect.

    Regardless of resources, workforce or location eventually every culture gets passed by another and it more often than not has everything to do with the governing bodies of said society that brings them down to point some other culture of society can take them over or surpass them.

    On the bright side given the present growth of global trade and cultural mixing china will likely be where we are now in 50 - 70 years. ;)
     
  12. loosewire

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    Apr 25, 2008
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    This will turn to politics , U.S.A. China and jobs.
     
  13. tcmtech

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    Well the #1 cause of countries or societies collapsing is politics. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Kermit2

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    Feb 5, 2010
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    Old joke but worth repeating here.

    Poli-tics

    Poli(poly) means MANY

    Tics(ticks), of course, are BLOOD SUCKING PARASITES
     
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  15. bountyhunter

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    Nope, it's greed.
     
  16. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    Do you mean the greed of the politicians?;)
     
  17. bountyhunter

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    It's not the politicians making the business owners outsource to save nickels and take advantage of foreign labor.

    It wasn't the politicians who made the greedy thugs on Wall Street cheat people in the unregulated derivative market that led to the collapse of the world's economy.

    I have no love of politicians, but Big Business is an evil unto itself and always has been.
     
  18. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
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    I think this has turned blatantly into politics. Even if no one is saying any names yet, I don't think it will be long before that.

    I know that this topic is of great importance and affects me as much as everybody, but political choices regarding employment do not lie in the scope of AAC.

    This thread will now be closed.
     
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