Debate About Vaccinations Heats Up

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
Distrust of government is the logical consequence of being treated like fools, distrust of valid medical science is foolish. I'm not for pointing a gun at anyone's head and forcing them to take the needle but if you want to live and interact at close quarters with the general public then you must take the responsibility for any harm because of your foolishness.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
AM talk radio format has been around for a long time. There are many more "advertising minutes" in the talk radio format than in other formats.

Fox News isn't the only 24-7 news out there, CNN started the whole 24 hour news cycle, and when you must fill the time with "news", there is less discrimination of what constitutes "news". Then in the pursuit of "ratings", the CNNs, MSNs, Fox, and other news outlets want to be "first" in reporting the NEWS. Does one ever wonder what was held back in the "good old days" when there was a one hour news cast on NBC, CBS, and ABC?

Dan Rather succumbed to "shoddy reporting" as did the NY Times.

Radio also had all NEWS all the time stations.

Now there are hundreds, if not thousands, of outlets vying for your time. It also includes "allaboutcircuits.com."

We all get tidbits of the truth from the various sources.

We live in a world where you can get 500 channels on your TV and there is "nothing to watch."
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
Distrust of government is the logical consequence of being treated like fools, distrust of valid medical science is foolish. I'm not for pointing a gun at anyone's head and forcing them to take the needle but if you want to live and interact at close quarters with the general public then you must take the responsibility for any harm because of your foolishness.
There are millions who are infected with noncommunicable diseases (usually intravenous drug/sexually transmitted) walking around the world and no one worries if a person outside the affected group will contract the illness.

So, if those who have been vaccinated are in fact immune to a disease carried by someone else, then only those who have not been vaccinated will be the only ones who will be subject to contracting the illness.
 
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nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
There are millions who are infected with noncommunicable diseases (usually intravenous drug/sexually transmitted) walking around the world and no one worries if a person outside the affected group will contract the illness.

So, if those who have been vaccinated are in fact immune to a disease carried by someone else, then only those who have not been vaccinated will be the only ones who will be subject to contracting the illness.
We spend billions on these addicts and losers so we as a society do care.

What about infants and kids who can't get vaccinated yet or complete the dosage until they are older, what about the cost of medical care and the loss of income to their families of the non-vaccinated? There are reals costs to this and it's very unlikely those who get sick will pay those costs so we all as taxpayers will have to foot the bill. If someone wants to play Russian roulette in the basement that's fine but don't do it with a hand-grenade in a city park that might kill or injure others.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vac-gen/whatifstop.htm
 

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,237
There are millions who are infected with noncommunicable diseases (usually intravenous drug/sexually transmitted) walking around the world and no one worries if a person outside the affected group will contract the illness.

So, if those who have been vaccinated are in fact immune to a disease carried by someone else, then only those who have not been vaccinated will be the only ones who will be subject to contracting the illness.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
One thing that I have not heard is why the vaccine allegedly causes severe illness -IE- "Autism" in children.
So here are some questions that need to be answered:

(1) Is the diagnosis of so called "Autism" really a credible medical opinion or is it a mislabeling of some other condition?

(2) If the vaccines were safe back in the 1950 and 60s and no one (including myself) seemed to develop any serious side effects, why is there now a concern that the vaccine is potentially hazardous?

(3) Is it possible that the current vaccine for measles is also an inoculation for a present or future threat of biological warfare? In the past 12 years, U.S. soldiers are experiencing Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (CFS) which may be a side effect of military strength vaccinations. The illness observed in children may actually be a version of CFS.

(4) Why aren't foreigners being screened for communicable diseases before they are allowed to enter the U.S.? It is certain that the outbreak at Disneyland was from a visitor from the Philippines. The government (and multinational corporations that run it) have been promoting their "Open Borders" policy where anyone from any country can walk into any other country with little or no examination.

Obviously, the issue of vaccines and their alleged side effects is quite severe and an emotional/rhetorical debate is not going to change anyone's opinion. What is needed are hard scientific facts that provide answers to all the questions I have posed.
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
Invoking Hitchen's Razor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitchens's_razor)
"What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence."
Your answer is merely rhetorical and you haven't dealt with any of my questions.

That's the problem and the debate will burn like Hell until someone does provide some scientific answers. This means providing statistics regarding the correlation of the vaccinations with illnesses and also determining if the diagnosis of the illnesses themselves are valid.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
I have a child with "Autism" so it's not a theoretical to me and is an inherited trait in my family tree. There are no absolutes in safety, some will die or be injured because of vaccines but people die and are injured in cars too. We weight the benefits vs costs every day we drive a car. Historically the advantages of driving and vaccination are so positive the negatives are worth the costs. There is no real debate, debate requires a position that can be defended.
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
I have a child with "Autism" so it's not a theoretical to me and is an inherited trait in my family tree. There are no absolutes in safety, some will die or be injured because of vaccines but people die and are injured in cars too. We weight the benefits vs costs every day we drive a car. Historically the advantages of driving and vaccination are so positive the negatives are worth the costs. There is no real debate, debate requires a position that can be defended.
How was your child diagnosed with autism? What are the symptoms?
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
How was your child diagnosed with autism? What are the symptoms?
He's a grown man and is doing fine with little supervision. We asked all the questions about possible causes during his diagnosis as a young child and are satisfied that vaccines were not the cause. All of my research points to inheritance as the most likely cause.
 

Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
He's a grown man and is doing fine with little supervision. We asked all the questions about possible causes during his diagnosis as a young child and are satisfied that vaccines were not the cause. All of my research points to inheritance as the most likely cause.
What were/are the symptoms of "autism"?

If inheritance (family genetics/DNA) is the most likely cause of the condition, how was this determined? Is there a genetic marker for so called "autism" and has he been tested for this marker?
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
What were/are the symptoms of "autism"?

If inheritance (family genetics/DNA) is the most likely cause of the condition, how was this determined? Is there a genetic marker for so called "autism" and has he been tested for this marker?
How many times do people have to say the relationship between autism and vaccinations is completely bogus so it doesn't really matter what the symptoms are and is a side-show that the anti groups used to scare people.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/u...-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0
 
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Thread Starter

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
How many times do people have to say the relationship between autism and vaccinations is completely bogus so it doesn't really matter what the symptoms are and is a side-show that the anti groups used to scare people.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/05/autism.vaccines/
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/u...-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0
I wasn't questioning the connection between autism and vaccines. My prior 3 questions pertained to your son's condition of autism and that was all. The problem with the debate is that it is so overwhelmed with emotions, name calling, and the issue is going nowhere.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
I wasn't questioning the connection between autism and vaccines. My prior 3 questions pertained to your son's condition of autism and that was all. The problem with the debate is that it is so overwhelmed with emotions, name calling, and the issue is going nowhere.
The issue is completely and totally in the minds of the kooks. Just telling it like it is.
 

Tesla23

Joined May 10, 2009
542
Resorting to name calling is not going to solve the issue. Just give the facts or don't give me anything.
'Facts' are pretty easy to find - type vaccination or immunisation into google and choose the reputable sites: NIH, national science academies, national medical associations, WHO etc..

If you need help, this seems to be a well researched article:
"Facts Are Your Friends -- Vaccinate Your Children"
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/krist...afe-and-facts-are-your-friends_b_7083504.html

if you want the facts, click on the links and read them, from my quick read they seem to be from organisations I'd trust.
 
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