Post #11

He never claims over unity, but the collapsing spike from the break down of the magnetic field at end cycle is certainly tuned nice.

I didn't mention the subject first, I was responding to it being mentioned. Thing you have to understand, is the word itself shows up like a beacon on Google, and the rest will follow. We have had a lot of experience with it here on AAC, to the point one of our mods has put his foot down hard on the subject. So if it comes up, and it is in your thread, it is your thread that is at risk. I was warning you, you can listen or not.

Do a search on the off topic forum if you want to see what has come up in the past.

For what its worth, I support the decision, the pseudo science was pretty bad sometimes. The true believers come across as religious fanatics, they Know the truth, and you're trying to repress them and are a tool of the big oil companies.

Thanks Tom, that was the type of response i was hoping for. Can you elaborate...

The "problem" you speak of, do you mean a "health problem" or a radio jamming problem.

Thanks again.

He was referring to the jamming problem. The FCC and related organization for other governments take a very dim view of radio noise. They seem to think they own the spectrum, or at least control it.

We have a Radio Forum on AAC. It should be no surprise that a lot of us are amateur radio enthusiasts, AKA Hams.

 

Thanks Tom, that was the type of response i was hoping for. Can you elaborate...

The "problem" you speak of, do you mean a "health problem" or a radio jamming problem.

Thanks again.

A radio jamming problem mostly. The band 3.5-4 MHz is amateur.

Try getting hold of an AM radio, this will probably pick up the noise, if not get an amateur 3-4 MHz radio (forget what they are called.)

Which may lead to angry radio amateurs leading to a health problem...

Other parts of it are WWVB, which is used to tell the time over a radio. You could also interfere with commercial AM radio near 1.5MHz if the frequency drops.

 

Hello,

Here is an overview of the ham radio bands:
http://www.eham.net/newham/bands

3.5 - 4 Mhz is called the 80 meter band.

Bertus

 

<snip> I now also wonder about all these wireless power products hitting the market. I mean the "charging pads". Perhaps they are shielded better, or maybe they employ lower frequencies and voltages, not so harmful to us.

The charging pads are really just a form of transformer. The primary is in the pad, the secondary is added into the device you want to charge. When the two are brought together the secondary starts working.

 

Didn't say you don't have radio, but not at the signal strength it would be if it were designed to transmit. How many radio stations spit lightning? That alone should tell you something is wrong with your theory. The field strengths are asymmetrical. In a Tesla coil the electric field is predominant, the magnetic part is very week. A photon is both magnetic fields and electric fields in lockstep (coherence).

How about AC electromagnets? The kind that will pick up aluminum? Again, asymmetrical field strengths. Using AC on the electromagnet induces a secondary magnetic field in the non ferrous material, allowing them to couple magnetically.

With a true transmitter and antenna as much energy is converted to RF as possible, anything else is an inefficiency. With RF you don't see either of the effects that exist with a Tesla Coil or AC electromagnet, with the exception of making a florescent lamp glow from the electric part of the field.

This may be a misunderstanding of degree not type. I do not claim that tesla coil as usually constructed now a days is the most efficient source of rf but I would claim that most are quite strong radiators esp. since the are frequently run at large powers ( easy to find hobby level coils running at multiple killowats). There is not too much wrong with my theory, esp. since it is not mine it is Maxwell's, still well excepted except for quantum considerations.

Additionally some of the distinction between electric and magnetic fields is artificial as what an observer sees depends on frame of reference ( this not just Maxwell but also Einstein )

Finally I would be willing to put money that all electric and magnetic interactions are mediated by photons with no necessity that the interaction be 50 - 50.

As I said at he beginning this may just be a difference of emphasis.

Finallly the wikipedia article on coils is quite interesting, including the use of coils to power radio transmitters ( that is getting the max rf a long distance )


also just found this which is interesting and has ring of truth, although i have not researched the source http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/Non-Herzian_Waves.html

and to go on just a bit more take a look at the Poynting vector which implies that without a magnetic field there would be no transmission of electric energy. This explores some of the idea for a simple circuit: http://sydney.edu.au/science/uniserve_science/school/curric/stage6/phys/stw2002/sefton.pdf Understanding Electricity and Circuits:
What the Text Books Don’t Tell You Ian M. Sefton School of Physics, The University of Sydney

 

Show me a transmitter that spits lightning. I asked, you have offered no explanation of the phenomena. You are ignoring the primary part of that quote.

The arcs from a Tesla coil are a direct consequence of the electric field, not RF. If you read what I have written, I have not said there is no RF, but there is a predominance of the electric field, which is not RF. In any high frequency setup with wires there will be some RF.

 

Show me a transmitter that spits lightning. According to you this should be easy, so let's see it.

The arcs from a Tesla coil are a direct consequence of the electric field, not RF. If you read what I have written, I have not said there is no RF, but there is a predomanance of the electric field, which is not RF.

A tesla coil is a transmitter which spits lightning. RF means radio frequency, water waves might be RF ( as opposed to radio wave which are both RF and electromagnetic. ) I did not claim that the only radiation from the coil is optimized radio waves. Take a look at the cited info. I think you will find it interesting in its own right even if you do not agree with me ( or maybe even it ).

Feel free to answer, I think I am done, and not looking for a fight.

 

A tesla coil is a transmitter which spits lightning. RF means radio frequency, water waves might be RF ( as opposed to radio wave which are both RF and electromagnetic. ) I did not claim that the only radiation from the coil is optimized radio waves. Take a look at the cited info. I think you will find it interesting in its own right even if you do not agree with me ( or maybe even it ).

Feel free to answer, I think I am done, and not looking for a fight.

You caught me mid edit, as I was trying to tone it down.

The fact is, the lightning is not coming from a vacuum. It is a consequence of the electric field, sure and simple, not the RF. When you exceed a certain number of volts/cm there will be an electrical discharge, same as with lightning generated by thunderstorms.

At no point have I said there is not RF, but you seem to be selectively picking and choosing points to ignore.

 

Show me a transmitter that spits lightning. I asked, you have offered no explanation of the phenomena. You are ignoring the primary part of that quote.

The arcs from a Tesla coil are a direct consequence of the electric field, not RF. If you read what I have written, I have not said there is no RF, but there is a predominance of the electric field, which is not RF. In any high frequency setup with wires there will be some RF.

It might make more sense if worded in terms of near field and far field.

RF Antennas typically attempt to enhance far field action and reduce the near field.

A Tesla Coil, Near field is all people look at, and the far field is a side effect.

near field - Electric Field
far field - Magnetic Field (90° from electric field)

 

I have no problem with that. But it is obvious more than a simple transmitter action is occurring.

 

I have no problem with that. But it is obvious more than a simple transmitter action is occurring.

No argument here.

The question as to frequency, I would guess it is running below the Mhz range, the frequency is dependent on the inductance and capacitance, not the maximum capability of the transistor.

If the OP could provide a schematic with inductor values, the frequency could be given (or roughly guessed at).

 

You caught me mid edit, as I was trying to tone it down.

....... but you seem to be selectively picking and choosing points to ignore.

I said done, but one more. I select the points I do not buy into, and I agree with most of what you say ( so there ). I do not mention the part I agree with, but I do not ignore it. In any case we are to some extent adressing the other readers and I would encourage them to read some of the references, and will post a challenge a new thead: http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=48941

 

The stronger coils (12v, 900 winds of 24 guage) are easily heard on an AM radio loud and clear. As you tune the frequency of the chopper, you distinctly notice that, too, on the AM radio. They have close proximity power distribution, but then, they also have the odd zone, farther away than you'd expect anyway, but you have to look for it. An led with an avramenko plug on the end is your detector. A quick test of turning the Exciter on and off will tell you if your detector is influenced at the far point by the device, or something else. By far away I mean 20 ft max, in all probability. This usually only happens if the unit is properly earth grounded.

 

The stronger coils (12v, 900 winds of 24 guage) are easily heard on an AM radio loud and clear. As you tune the frequency of the chopper, you distinctly notice that, too, on the AM radio. They have close proximity power distribution, but then, they also have the odd zone, farther away than you'd expect anyway, but you have to look for it. An led with an avramenko plug on the end is your detector. A quick test of turning the Exciter on and off will tell you if your detector is influenced at the far point by the device, or something else. By far away I mean 20 ft max, in all probability. This usually only happens if the unit is properly earth grounded.

That could be a real problem as you would be broadcasting on a commercial band without a license. Think about what noise you might be causing on more sensitive frequencies.

 

An RF source emits ionizing radiation. While the level at which harmful effects is not precisely set, it is taking a chance for some harm - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionizing_radiation

The transmission of energy through RF is not particularly efficient, especially when compared with wires.

The abbreviation "RF" usually means "radio frequency", and as it is commonly used refers to frequencies lower than visible light.

The Wikipedia article you referenced says "Radiation on the short-wavelength end of the electromagnetic spectrum—high frequency ultraviolet, x-rays, and gamma rays—is ionizing, due to their composition of high-energy photons. Lower-energy radiation, such as visible light, infrared, microwaves, and radio waves, are not ionizing."

RF, as the term is commonly understood, is not ionizing.

 

I am a bit goosy about RF. Too many 5 KW HF transmitters and megawatt radars.

 

The abbreviation "RF" usually means "radio frequency", and as it is commonly used refers to frequencies lower than visible light.

The Wikipedia article you referenced says "Radiation on the short-wavelength end of the electromagnetic spectrum—high frequency ultraviolet, x-rays, and gamma rays—is ionizing, due to their composition of high-energy photons. Lower-energy radiation, such as visible light, infrared, microwaves, and radio waves, are not ionizing."

RF, as the term is commonly understood, is not ionizing.

I think people that saw photons are RF and X-Ray energy assumed all photons of any energy level are ionizing, when in fact it is only the very high frequency photons, beyond UVA (energy of a particle increases with frequency).

 

To create X-rays require high voltages in a vacuum as far as I know. Scotch tape in a vacuum will create them as an extreme example. I don't think a Tesla Coil can produce them without extra parts, though it could definitely power a X-ray generator.

 

The most simple of Exciter's using a coil from a crystal radio is shown here powering a half a dozen LED's at 6v, 3 mA wirelessly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBA0qY0IbPI

That is basically what I am talking about.

 

The coil would be sensitive to the electric field if it were too close. I can't look at the video at the moment, but remember, electric fields are V/cm, and fairly short range. Within that range however, it would be overwhelming. Only distance would tell you which field (electromagnetic or electric) the AM radio is responding to.

Of course, it is possible you are putting out as much RF power as you are speculating, and the FCC is looking through your neighborhood as I type. The fines are quite substantial I understand.