Commercial treadmill restoration, lots of questions

Discussion in 'Technical Repair' started by baronpork, Feb 2, 2015.

  1. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
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    Restoring a commercial treadmill, checking components to eliminate "simple" faults before i start digging in more difficult things (controllers).

    Main motor is a 3 phase 110vac connected to controller. Comm problems, need to eliminate motor as a cause for this.

    I have no clue about electric motors beyond basic DC knowledge. Motor is AC and 110v. My mains run 240vac (UK). No idea how to test.

    Here is the pic of me doing continuity test and a page from service manual with pinouts:

    [​IMG]

    Can it be determined from this if motor is good ?
     
  2. MikeML

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 2, 2009
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    Stick you nose as close to the motor as possible. Inhale. If no burned insulation smell, motor is likely good.
    Spin shaft. If it spins freely, then motor is likely good.
     
  3. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    Impossible to run a 3ph motor on 1ph without some kind of sophisticated controller, do you know the nature of the motor? Induction, BLDC (P.M.?) etc. or can you post a pic.
    If you have 240v supply and the motor is 110, then obviously some type of reduction going on somewhere.
    What is shown in the manual under your notes?
    What exactly is it doing (or not doing)?
    Max.
     
  4. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
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    Its not doing anything because there is a "comm bad" error in controller. What i'm trying to do is to ascertain if the motor is dead or not, before i start digging further.

    The treadmill is of american design, but with european power entry module, which has transformer on it. It is functioning fine (as far as i can tell). 110vac is present and going to controller and junction boards (both have "hot" 110vac parts to them). Junction board connects upper electronics in a control console. Console is showing "comm bad" which could be a million things. Both controller boards and concole board indicate presence of correct voltages via status leds on them.
    Trying to eliminate simplest elements out of the puzzle first.
     
  5. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    It sounds like a 'Communication bad' message?
    Which I would guess is something missing between the motor control board and the operator display?
    Is there any trouble shooting routines in the manual? Or something to indicate the meaning of the message?
    Max.
     
  6. tcmtech

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 4, 2013
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    Pretty easy to test if you have the right parts.

    Plan A feed AC power to it through a larger wattage light bulb or set of bulbs so the motor is getting close to its rated amps at stall from your mains to two of the phases and put a motor run capacitor across the third phase going back to either one of the first two. Most any AC rated motor run capacitor over 50 or so uF should get it going one way or another.

    Plan B if you don't have a motor run capacitor is to use the same light bulb current limiter and just do one phase at a time using small cord wrapped around the shaft to spin it up. If you can spin it up and it stays at speed for all three phases and the light bulb brightness once up to speed looks similar between all three phases its likely good.
     
  7. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    I doubt it is a induction motor on a T.M. some kind of variable speed is necessary, also if 3ph motors as indicated, there will not usually be a motor run cap?
    Max.
     
  8. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
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    There is another problem of not having a keypad at the moment (http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/cleaning-badly-corroded-connectors.106496/).
    Cant properly run diagnostics. Console itself works though. Looks like electronics might be working fine, but i have a corrosion problem to solve. In the meantime i'm trying to test whatever i can to eliminate.
     
  9. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    That could account for the Comm bad msg?
    Max.
     
  10. tcmtech

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 4, 2013
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    I've scrapped a number of treadmills over the years and I have found a few that had three phase induction motors on them so it not all that uncommon of design. The main power board for them is basically a stripped down VFD unit.

    Yes they are not likely to have any run capacitor on them. For testing purposes that would have to come from another motor or a HID lighting ballast unit. The rope start method would be the easiest way to test his motor.

    Either that or hook the current limited power up to it one phase at a time while the motor is still in the treadmill and try literally running it up to speed and see if it holds there. If the load to keep the belts and whatnot moving is low the motor should be able to stay at speed even on single phase if the input amps are close to its rating.
     
  11. Dodgydave

    Distinguished Member

    Jun 22, 2012
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    Only way to test the motor is on an inverter drive, or a three phase 110V supply,what is the model of the treadmill,can you post pictures of the circuit?
     
  12. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
    37
    1
    No, thats not it. While i had half of keyboard working i looked up errors - its something to do with comms between motor controller and junction board (called wax/lift board, but does more than just run wax pump and incline motors). Cleaning up contacts, discovering connection problems elsewhere (kbd situation)...

    The treadmill in question is a commercial gym treadmill, LifeFitness 9500HR NewGen. Weighs something like 220kg, big etc... Not really a domestic appliance. Parts cost absolute fortune. And some idiot left it sitting in the damp and probably open wet at some point. Had shot caps and pwm switch on wax/lift board. Replaced that and got console to light up and diadnostics to tell me comm "bad thing". There...
     
  13. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
    37
    1
    I have a ton of pics and a service manual. What i dont have is experience in electrical engineering beyond basic knowledge and common sense (and common sense in safety). Will upload some pics later.

    Finding service manual was one hell of a headache. Got it though.

    #Edit/Add# Loads of pics...
    https://imgur.com/a/zyc0z

    Service manual:
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ybru3pzu6...1-95HR-97HR-97HR-W-Decline-Treadmill.pdf?dl=0
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  14. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    The manual point to a fairly sophisticated control, there are a few faults that trigger a "Comm bad" they also have a network capability, the motors appear to be 3ph ECM, which could mean they are P.M. (permanent magnet), electronically commutated motors, they also have a tach feedback.
    It is going to be hard to diagnose from a distance!
    Max.
     
  15. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
    37
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    Well, it is a high end commercial treadmill. Thats why i want to restore it, cant buy it. Also, its a learning experience.

    As for pm motors, wouldnt they have a "step" feel to them when turned by hand ? The one i got here is spinning free when rotated. Kind of like induction motor. I need to take fan shroud off to access it for more visual inspection.

    But at the moment i'm stuck because of lack of keyboard to dontrol it all. I need to cobble something together to replace existing membrane OR somehow restore it to working order, plug/solder it back in. See pics for reference.
     
  16. tcmtech

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 4, 2013
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    If getting it up and running is the goal I would be tempted to stripout the origional contorl systesm and replace them with more common off the shelf commercial components.

    VFD's are fairly cheap now a days and most decent ones are easily programed to limit the voltage applied to the motor so using a 110 VAC rated motor with a 220 VAC power system is not really a problem.
     
  17. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
    37
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    Kind of defeats the purpose. and you lose lots of features/functions.
     
  18. tcmtech

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 4, 2013
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    I wouldn't know. Personally I prefer to actually go places when I walk. :p
     
  19. baronpork

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 16, 2013
    37
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    Malcolm the Jester much, no ? :D

    All joking aside, its one thing that makes me not go stir crazy from my 9-5 - a project. Benefit of positive ending to this project is i might get off my arse for a change...
     
  20. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    Not necessarily, the way to tell is to short the motor stator connections together, if P.M. you will be able to feel the bumps (pole count) as you turn the shaft over.
    There are not many 120v 3ph induction motors out there, unless these were custom wound.
    Max.
     
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