Climate change

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by ronv, Jun 5, 2014.

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  1. ronv

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 12, 2008
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    I listen to all the stuff about climate change, but it seems to now be a political thing. :mad:

    It seems to me there could be some real experiments done that would tilt the scales one way or the other.

    For example could you build a big box with the normal mix of gasses and heat it with a big lamp until it reached equilibrium, then add some CO2 and see if it gets hotter?

    Anyone hear of any studies (hopefully better than mine) that might shed some light on it?

    PS. No fair just giving another opinion. :)
     
  2. timwhite

    Member

    Apr 10, 2014
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    NASA has some information that they post here: http://climate.nasa.gov/evidence about a lot of naturally occurring "experiments" that you could take a look at.
     
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  3. Brownout

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2012
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    I'm pretty sure that's already been done. That's how warming potential of various gases is measured experimentally.
     
  4. wmodavis

    Well-Known Member

    Oct 23, 2010
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    There is a big experiment like that on going right now. They are collecting volumes of data and so far there if very poor correlation between average global temperature and atmospheric CO2 levels. CO2 is on a pretty continuous up-slope and at about 400ppm of the atmosphere which is about .04% (http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/figures/co2_mm_obs.png but the average global temperatures have not increased for nearly 2 decades.

    CO2 is indeed a GHG just as the much more predominant water vapor. WV, humidity, clouds the sun, the oceans & CO2 etc all work too affect the earth's climate. And again NO average global warming for nearly 20 years. http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/graphs_v3/Fig.C.gif

    Of course there is global warming and global cooling. Measured data shows a very dynamic temperature up-and-down variation. For about 20 years though it has averaged out to actually a slightly overall temperature negative trend.

    I doubt - no I'll say it would be impossible to create a boxed experiment that could duplicate the earth's climate taking into account all that affects the radiative balance and hence the climate of this planet we live on. It is a closed loop system with both positive and negative feedback to keep it fluctuating though relatively stable.
     
  5. ronv

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 12, 2008
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    Half a degree doesn't seem like much but evidentially it's enough to raise sea level quite a bit.
    The model is more complex than I would have thought, but it looks like they are getting pretty close.
    http://www.aip.org/history/climate/summary.htm
     
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  6. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    This conversation has me thinking about the difference between temperature and energy...which is part of my day job. The word is enthalpy.

    It is entirely possible to increase the energy of the system without changing the temperature. Melting ice in a glass of water absorbs quite a lot of energy. The water changes state from sold to liquid while the temperature remains the same. Get the drift? Global warming doesn't have to show up first as a change in temperature.
     
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  7. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    This conversation has come up before, and has always ended badly. I expect no less from this one, and bring it before the other moderators.

    A quick search would have shown this. You are right, the debate is very political (though not the science). Politics are not allowed on AAC.
     
  8. ronv

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 12, 2008
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    Sorry, I just keep hearing about it. Please feel free to close it. It seems like there are plenty of good links to keep me busy.;)

    Now that you mention it, it was two guys screaming at each other about it that woke me up from my nap and made me think about it. :mad:
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2014
  9. Brownout

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    Jan 10, 2012
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    It might be more informative to examine the correlation of temperature with CO2 accumulation over a longer time period. As can be seen from the chat below, there is actually very good correlation between CO2 gain and temperature rise. By only looking at a few years from 1998 or so, the picture seems to be different. However, over a longer time period, the correlation becomes more clear. There are plenty of short duration time periods along the long graph where one could make a case for poor correlation, but as can be clearly seen, eventually the two measures get back on track.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. tcmtech

    Well-Known Member

    Nov 4, 2013
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    The climate has always been changing and it always will be.

    The big stink is some peoples local climates are shifting to less favorable conditions and they are whining about it.

    Now on the other hand there are just as many people who are seeing no changes in their local climate and just as many more who are seeing favorable changes in their locations. ;)

    Personally what I have seen over the last 20 years in my area is an improvement to which effect that makes me all in favor of doing what ever I can to help push these changes along even further and faster! :D

    As we say around here. If you don't like the climate where you live MOVE! If you cant afford to move you probably cant afford to stay either.
     
  11. sirch2

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 21, 2013
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    "The climate has always been changing and it always will be"

    But never before in the history of the planet has an advanced society or such a populated world tried to live through such a change. For those of us in first world countries with reasonably temperate climates and more than a few feet above sea level it probably won't be much of an issue in our life times. However there will be famines, wars and millions will die or be displaced. Everyone is somebodies father/mother/son/daughter.
     
  12. Georacer

    Moderator

    Nov 25, 2009
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    This topic has caused a lot of heartache to the forum in the past.

    ronv, if you really want to read some arguments and stats, you can do a search the Off-Topic section for similar threads. I doubt there will be much left to say after that.

    This thread will now be closed.
     
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