Please do not apologise.

What is the way forward when I sincerely believe one thing, and you (I sense) sincerely believe something incompatible with my belief?

We can't both be right, but we are both sincere.

Maybe the respectable answer is that neither of us know for sure?

I am genuinely interested in your opinion.

You are absolutely correct there. I agree completely--neither of us know for sure. I suppose that's what makes life interesting--not knowing anything for sure. Mystery is the spice of life. If someone knew whether religion was definitely true or was definitely false (as a FACT), wouldn't that make life kind of boring?

My 2¢

 

There is nothing in this world that can prove religion is true or false. You're welcome to your beliefs, but you can't say it's a fact that there is no God, just like I can't say it's a fact that there IS a God. See what I'm saying?

Doesn't that depend (like everything else) on your definition (of a God)?

 

You are absolutely correct there. I agree completely--neither of us know for sure. I suppose that's what makes life interesting--not knowing anything for sure. Mystery is the spice of life. If someone knew whether religion was definitely true or was definitely false (as a FACT), wouldn't that make life kind of boring?

My 2¢

That is worth far more than 2 cents and I sense that you are a good Christian (I meet many) and I now have huge respect for you (not that you need any kind of validation from me) and I like you without knowing you.

Thank you for respecting our differences. This is how I think it should be.

Sorry for sounding a bit soppy.

EDIT: Why do I assume that you are Christian, when there are other beliefs? I feel stupid sometimes..


EDIT2: and you do a far greater service to your God than the "guy" in the op's video does. ....but there I go making judgements again..

 

I've no idea why the thread's still open, but we have a few of these guys in Birmingham too. I find them odd, if I wanted people to believe in something I wouldn't stand in the middle of the street ranting like a madman. That's just going to put people off.

 

Doesn't that depend (like everything else) on your definition (of a God)?

A valid point!

That is worth far more than 2 cents and I sense that you are a good Christian (I meet many) and I now have huge respect for you (not that you need any kind of validation from me) and I like you without knowing you.

Thank you for respecting our differences. This is how I think it should be.

Sorry for sounding a bit soppy.

EDIT: Why do I assume that you are Christian, when there are other beliefs? I feel stupid sometimes.. but there I go making judgements again..


EDIT2: and you do a far greater service to your God than the "guy" in the op's video does.

You are correct--I am a Christian, and I appreciate your comments and understanding.

A difference I have noticed between myself and some other so-called "Christians" out there is that they're so caught up with their beliefs that they don't listen to others whose beliefs differ. Some of them even hate people with different beliefs. Personally, I believe true Christianity is about love and understanding. It's not about forcing your religion on someone else and trying to get them to believe what you believe. It's about caring for others, regardless of race, gender, sexual preferences, religion, customs, practices, etc. That is exactly why I strongly disagree with the doomsayer "christians" who say "If you don't listen to me you're going to hell!" In my opinion, that is not up to people to say. They have no right to judge others. Period.

 

Why is this open...?

Is it that I am not involved in any discussion ?

Wanna make me comment on this Moderate forsaken thread.

 

It's not about forcing your religion on someone else and trying to get them to believe what you believe.

You must be 'loosely' Christian then. If you adhered to the book to the letter of the word then you would have no liberty to make that statement. The Bible tells people to go out and make converts. I really don't see why there should be discord between atheists & Christians. Atheism is the lack of a religion; I don't see the motive for atheists to try to gain converts by tearing down religion. Atheists too often turn their lack of a religion into a religion and try to force that religion onto others, same as any other religion. I call these people 'Antitheists'. I'm an atheist because I cannot make myself believe in a religion. I tried. I was raised in an overly religious family. I was home schooled until high school to keep me from 'secular' influences. My curriculum was a Christian curriculum and contained a hefty dose of christianinty; bible study every day. Went to church 3X/week. The more I learned the less I believed. By 6th grade I felt like a kid feels when he learns santa claus isn't real, but keeps up the facade because he knows his parents get a kick out of it. I still haven't announced my lack of faith to my parents, but I know that they know. Anyways, I don't find the need to try and gain converts to my religion. As I said, it's not a religion. I can get along splendidly with members of all religions. I have my own set of morals which anybody of any peaceful faith could align with, and I don't need the threat of eternal damnation or the incentive of heaven to follow them. I respect your beliefs, and R!f@@'s, and everybody's [edit] so long as they don't pester me or try to behead me for not joining[/edit].

 

Strantor...Bow down to me..or loose ur head.

What's it gonna be.?

 

You must be 'loosely' Christian then. If you adhered to the book to the letter of the word then you would have no liberty to make that statement. The Bible tells people to go out and make converts. I really don't see why there should be discord between atheists & Christians. Atheism is the lack of a religion; I don't see the motive for atheists to try to gain converts by tearing down religion. Atheists too often turn their lack of a religion into a religion and try to force that religion onto others, same as any other religion. I call these people 'Antitheists'. I'm an atheist because I cannot make myself believe in a religion. I tried. I was raised in an overly religious family. I was home schooled until high school to keep me from 'secular' influences. My curriculum was a Christian curriculum and contained a hefty dose of christianinty; bible study every day. Went to church 3X/week. The more I learned the less I believed. By 6th grade I felt like a kid feels when he learns santa claus isn't real, but keeps up the facade because he knows his parents get a kick out of it. I still haven't announced my lack of faith to my parents, but I know that they know. Anyways, I don't find the need to try and gain converts to my religion. As I said, it's not a religion. I can get along splendidly with members of all religions. I have my own set of morals which anybody of any peaceful faith could align with, and I don't need the threat of eternal damnation or the incentive of heaven to follow them. I respect your beliefs, and R!f@@'s, and everybody's [edit] so long as they don't pester me or try to behead me for not joining[/edit].

Good thoughts, strantor. However, I disagree with the first part. The Bible says to "spread the word of the Gospel". It doesn't say "go around and force people to believe in God". There's a huge difference there

I do agree with the whole Athiest/Religious thing. One shouldn't try to force beliefs on another. Yes, it's good for people to know and understand others' beliefs. In fact, I think that's absolutely necessary in order for people to make an educated decision. However, believing the same thing as others is an entirely different matter. Telling someone about Christianity is different than trying to make them believe it.

 

Strantor...Bow down to me..or loose ur head.

What's it gonna be.?

option number 3

 

I'm always curious about the circumstances of people choosing their "one true" religion...

I'd have a lot of respect for someone that tried out all different religions, like say was a Catholic for a year, Muslim for a year, Buddhist, Pagan, X, Y, Z religions and for a whole year literally devoted himself to true faith and belief in that religion and learned all he could in a year. Then after 20 years and 20 religions he could tell me "Well, I'm pretty sure the one true religion is..."

But from what I've seen people choose religions the same way they choose football teams. It's never about which team is actually the BEST, or wins more cups, or anything logical. It was just always the team their family supported. Or she married a guy that supported that team. Or his friends liked that team so he started supporting that team too. Or he just picked a team one day then was totally convinced that was the best team.

In short it seems to be basic tribal behaviour, a primitive need for belonging and group reinforcement. Regardless of whether any of us believes in God or not, that particular human behaviour is on its way out and that will accelerate as man develops.

 

The Bible says......

But which bible?

There is more than one (christian) bible.

 

But which bible?

There is more than one (christian) bible.

AAh ! so u do agree it could be wrong.

 

I'd have a lot of respect for someone that tried out all different religions, like say was a Catholic for a year, Muslim for a year, Buddhist, Pagan, X, Y, Z religions and for a whole year literally devoted himself to true faith and belief in that religion and learned all he could in a year. Then after 20 years and 20 religions he could tell me "Well, I'm pretty sure the one true religion is..."

I tried that. I didn't give each one a whole year, and I didn't go through all of them, but I studied a lot of them briefly, only until I found myself reading fiction, and then on to the next. I guess that would be the agnostic chapter of my life. Sometimes I have an agnostic day here and there, but never a Christian one.

 

I am not advocating the validity of any particular document, just pointing out that the several different versions of the "Bible" contain different things.

It is also true that within any particular version there are many contradictions.

But we should not make the mistake, equivalent to arguing about mains voltage or frequency without stating , European, Chinese or American mains.

 

In short it seems to be basic tribal behavior, a primitive need for belonging and group reinforcement. Regardless of whether any of us believes in God or not, that particular human behaviour is on its way out and that will accelerate as man develops.

I am curious as to what evidence you see that tribal behavior is on its way out. In my view, tribal behavior is more pervasive than ever. It permeates every facet of society: religion, politics, sexual orientation, hobby interests, national allegiance, educational level, vocations, economic strata, gangs and clubs, actual primitive tribes, etc., ad infinitum.

 

I'm always curious about the circumstances of people choosing their "one true" religion...

I'd have a lot of respect for someone that tried out all different religions, like say was a Catholic for a year, Muslim for a year, Buddhist, Pagan, X, Y, Z religions and for a whole year literally devoted himself to true faith and belief in that religion and learned all he could in a year. Then after 20 years and 20 religions he could tell me "Well, I'm pretty sure the one true religion is..."

But from what I've seen people choose religions the same way they choose football teams. It's never about which team is actually the BEST, or wins more cups, or anything logical. It was just always the team their family supported. Or she married a guy that supported that team. Or his friends liked that team so he started supporting that team too. Or he just picked a team one day then was totally convinced that was the best team.

In short it seems to be basic tribal behaviour, a primitive need for belonging and group reinforcement. Regardless of whether any of us believes in God or not, that particular human behaviour is on its way out and that will accelerate as man develops.

That is why I feel it's necessary to listen to others' beliefs and understand what they're saying. You don't have to believe it. Just make sure you know enough to make an educated decision.

But which bible?

There is more than one (christian) bible.

Once again, you make a valid point

I guess I was referring to the Christian Protestant Bible, which is the one I follow.

 

I tried that. I didn't give each one a whole year, and I didn't go through all of them, but I studied a lot of them briefly, only until I found myself reading fiction, and then on to the next. I guess that would be the agnostic chapter of my life. Sometimes I have an agnostic day here and there, but never a Christian one.

Well all the great old texts contain fiction, the Bible included. That is some of the best stuff; the wonderful stories, allegory, anecdotes etc that wise men have used throughout the ages to teach other men morality and social conscience. In the days before books those stories were the main way people learnt conceptual things. To me those stories of wisdom are probably the things of greatest value in all those old texts.

I am curious as to what evidence you see that tribal behavior is on its way out. In my view, tribal behavior is more pervasive than ever. It permeates every facet of society: religion, politics, sexual orientation, hobby interests, national allegiance, educational level, vocations, economic strata, gangs and clubs, actual primitive tribes, etc., ad infinitum.

I think what you are seeing is man's need for tribal acceptance which is not gone completely and is still strong in many people. But technology, the information age and fast cheap long distance travel have taken a great toll on tribal behaviours. People move away from their family much quicker now, and live at much larger distances from their "tribe". Likewise we live in much smaller family units and are very quick to adopt new beliefs and behaviours as individuals (and to have those new behaviours accepted and tolerated). And to research many possible avenues before choosing new beliefs and behaviours, something almost unheard of previously in history except in radical individuals who dared to go against their own people.

That is why I feel it's necessary to listen to others' beliefs and understand what they're saying. You don't have to believe it. Just make sure you know enough to make an educated decision.

Absolutely! Respect for our fellow man and his beliefs goes a long way. We're getting more civilised, not so long ago men were using thumbscrews on each other when they discussed religious differences...

 

Respect....!

 

I think what you are seeing is man's need for tribal acceptance which is not gone completely and is still strong in many people. But technology, the information age and fast cheap long distance travel have taken a great toll on tribal behaviours. People move away from their family much quicker now, and live at much larger distances from their "tribe". Likewise we live in much smaller family units and are very quick to adopt new beliefs and behaviours as individuals (and to have those new behaviours accepted and tolerated). And to research many possible avenues before choosing new beliefs and behaviours, something almost unheard of previously in history except in radical individuals who dared to go against their own people.

I agree that technology has taken an unfortunate toll on family structure, but I think that true individuality is rarer today than ever before in human history. We live in the golden age of tribal behavior. Whether it is expressed by a colored ribbon, a college or team logo, a political symbol, a jailhouse tattoo, a brand on a piece of clothing, a chosen vehicle style, or the everpresent smart phone, it's still a sign of "group think" and the need to be "in." The fact that technological advancements allow some group members to be physically separated from the herd is irrelevant.