Chicago is an example of how well restrictive gun ownership laws work.

Status
Not open for further replies.

joeyd999

Joined Jun 6, 2011
5,237
View attachment 111929

========================================
Mr constitution suggests killing millions of American citizens without a trial. Wow.

...And appeantly believes the current murder rate is not a problem because killing the rest would be the solution.
It is soooooooo easy to get a rise out of you, Mr. Predictable.

No need to snapshot my posts. I never delete them.
 

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
Albert may live through a knife attack, or any aggravated assault. People will use whatever weapon is handy. I saw a one punch fight where the recipient died after his head hit the curb. If fists were outlawed, he might have lived.
Sure and someone died from an infection from a hangnail. But the fact of the matter is Albert is 1/4 as likely to be murdered than you are.
Same thing with suicides - guns are just better at it. :D
@wayneh , What do you think? Should we nuke Chicago? :eek:
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
Same thing with suicides - guns are just better at it.
I have no doubt about guns being more efficient at killing people. Unfortunately, I doubt the "spray and pray" technique has increased the efficiency factor of guns. In the right hands, the gun is highly efficient, the metric being one shot, one dead.

Spray and pray is more about fear then killing.

But the fact of the matter is Albert is 1/4 as likely to be murdered than you are.
It might be higher because of the disparity in population between the UK and the US. The US has almost five times the population of the UK. I lived in NYC for a number of years on and off. Walked some streets I had no business being on at oddball times. Still I woke up this morning.

Yes, I live in an urban area, in a open carry state that also permits concealed carry. You never know who is packing and who is not unless their weapon is visible. I haven't seen a concealed carry person or other citizen convicted yet for defending their property or others.

Force can only countered by equal force, and defeated by superior force. Anyone who thinks the police are there to prevent crime is fooling themselves. The police are a reactive force. The minority report is a movie, the ideals presented there will not work.

The news is reporting 100+ civilians are taking part in an Active Shooter Response class offered by the Fort Worth police. http://cbsloc.al/2ccmFGA

What do you think? Should we nuke Chicago?
That will only reduce the killings from that locale. Zero population would equal zero murder rate.
 

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
@JoeJester

It might be higher because of the disparity in population between the UK and the US. The US has almost five times the population of the UK. I lived in NYC for a number of years on and off. Walked some streets I had no business being on at oddball times. Still I woke up this morning.
So your saying there is a correlation between number of people and the murder rate? Kind of like to many mice in the cage?:eek:

The news is reporting 100+ civilians are taking part in an Active Shooter Response class offered by the Fort Worth police. http://cbsloc.al/2ccmFGA
Yet the Dallas rate is twice the national average. However it is 1/2 of Chicago's. Do we need more guns in Chicago?

That will only reduce the killings from that locale. Zero population would equal zero murder rate.
Wayne lives just outside Chicago. I just wanted his opinion on the nukes.:D
 

Kermit2

Joined Feb 5, 2010
4,162
You could always invite Al Capone back to Chicago.

Seems the crime stats show there was a lower overall murder rate then as opposed to recent years. Population being almost the same also.

Maybe the gangsters were just better shots and fewer innocent bystanders got nailed. :)

Guns have less to do with it than most people believe. It is mostly evil, careless, chaotic mentality in a subset of the human animal to blame. Those who do not give a DAMN about consequences and would as soon kill you or rob you or both just for something to do.
It is an evil of the soul and cannot be legislated away.
Violence must sometimes be met with violence. Violence is a tool. Sometimes used for good, other times used for bad.
If they want to kill and other means fail to stop them, then kill them right back. When enough is enough that is what will finally finish this.
 

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
You could always invite Al Capone back to Chicago.

Seems the crime stats show there was a lower overall murder rate then as opposed to recent years. Population being almost the same also.

Maybe the gangsters were just better shots and fewer innocent bystanders got nailed. :)
Yep, the mob took care of it's turf, and it took care of a lot of crime at the same time. Look at the "new" Las Vegas.
But now every drug gang sees itself as Al Calpone or John DiFronzo. But it is a different time. It is similar in that most shootings are criminals shooting criminals.

Guns have less to do with it than most people believe. It is mostly evil, careless, chaotic mentality in a subset of the human animal to blame. Those who do not give a DAMN about consequences and would as soon kill you or rob you or both just for something to do.
It is an evil of the soul and cannot be legislated away.
Violence must sometimes be met with violence. Violence is a tool. Sometimes used for good, other times used for bad.
If they want to kill and other means fail to stop them, then kill them right back. When enough is enough that is what will finally finish this.
So do you think America was blessed to have an inordinate number of these people?

But lets say your right... How would you propose to kill them right back better than what is happening now??
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
Yet the Dallas rate is twice the national average.
I read in the 2015 Texas DPS report about a smaller PD reporting 1 murder and a 3.9 per 100,000 rate in Dallas county. Of course there were lots of Police Departments reporting no murders in the county. Dallas has the highest number of murders in Dallas County with 136 or 10.4 per 100,000 rate.

Decisions has consequences. Some will decide to use force and some will respond with force. Both decisions can show up on the homicide rate. It doesn't say much about convictions.
 
Last edited:

ronv

Joined Nov 12, 2008
3,770
@JoeJester
It's early, but I don't know what your point is.
The questions were why is the UK murder rate 4X lower?
Based on your thinking we need more guns in Chicago?
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
@JoeJester
It's early, but I don't know what your point is.
The questions were why is the UK murder rate 4X lower?
Based on your thinking we need more guns in Chicago?
There needs to be a redistribution of guns in Chicago from the armed thugs to the law abiding citizens but that would upset the apple-cart designed by the cities criminals and politicos. The politicos have decided it's better to cede areas of low criminal resistance in the city to gangs in order to keep them concentrated from the rest of the voters. Nobody really gives a damn about blacks killing other blacks there as long as respectable people are free to life their lives elsewhere in the city.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,045
Yep, the mob took care of it's turf, and it took care of a lot of crime at the same time
I've been telling people that for a while now. In the Youngstown, OH area there was a pretty big mob/mafia presence, big enough it was mentioned a few time in the TV show "the Sopranos". When they were prominent in the area there was little drugs and person to person crime. If the "bad guy's" did something that wasn't sanctioned by the mob they paid a price, sometimes with there lives. The average citizen was safer when the mob was in "control". They were the force that kept things from getting out of hand.
 

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
The average citizen was safer when the mob was in "control". They were the force that kept things from getting out of hand.
That is not a compliment to our Hero's in Blue.:rolleyes:
Look at what a great job they are doing this week!

http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cops-kill-man-eating-chicken-wings/
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/780k-settlement-cop-shoots-4yo-daughter/

and a couple more:
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-fired-restraint-killing-suicidal-man/
http://thefreethoughtproject.com/deputy-snorting-xanax-crashes-school/
 
Last edited:

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
Do you have a plan or suggestion how that would work without any violations of the beloved second amendment?
Violations of the beloved second amendment are what made this a critical issue for regular citizens is those areas by focusing on guns not criminals. By focusing on tight restrictions on guns to the non-criminal instead of tight restrictions on criminal activities that involve guns the solution to the equation of safety for the citizens in those areas didn't match the physical and political reality of Chicago. The true solution is not fewer or more guns for criminals or citizens. The true solution is less corruption from a embedded leadership of brothers in crime running their own private empires in the city.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
17,496
Wayne lives just outside Chicago. I just wanted his opinion on the nukes.:D
I live upwind, so let 'em fly! Release the hounds.

To be serious, I might agree with the sentiment but disagree with the tool. Chicago needs a surgical strike more than a carpet bombing. Most of Chicago is actually a very nice place and I feel safe when I visit there.

Almost all the killing is isolated to a small population. Young black (and hispanic?) men killing other young black men. The shooting is done by criminals known to the police, who have been arrested for violence at least once before. I don't know the number, but if you were to arrest and incarcerate the right 300 people, the violence would end. Chicago would become one of the safest cities on Earth. At least for a while.

So why not fix it? That's the $64 question. The police are understaffed but are doing a decent job of finding and arresting these punks. The police know who they are, and they seem to at least contain the violence away from the general population. The problem is that these gang bangers spend almost no time in jail even after multiple arrests for violent crimes.

Viewed from a distance, it seems to me that the only explanation is that Chicago wants this situation. Living with it is preferred to the actions needed to stop it. It's not rocket science how to crack down on crime, you just have to do it. Marshall and allocate the resources. Someone is preventing it from being fixed and prefers the status quo, despite the obvious downsides to tourism and such. Is it the drug cartels paying off politicians? Is it liberal bureaucrats not wanting to incarcerate young people of color? The state is broke, so maybe there's no money to hold these gang bangers in jail? Not enough money for courtroom trials? I really don't know. They say, "follow the money". I think that would quickly reveal the weak link in Chicago.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top