I'm not aware of much negative sentiment toward LEDs...

My biggest problem with them -- and I guess it is psychological -- is that it seems like such a waste of resources to have to 'engineer' a light bulb.

I hope that, after WWIII, someone remains who knows how to build an Edison bulb. Otherwise, we're going to have to start back at fire all over again.

 

I hope that, after WWIII, someone remains who knows how to build an Edison bulb. Otherwise, we're going to have to start back at fire all over again.

Unless they also know how to build a power plant, it's going to be fire.

 

I hope that, after WWIII, someone remains who knows how to build an Edison bulb. Otherwise, we're going to have to start back at fire all over again.

Unless they also know how to build a power plant, it's going to be fire.

The 70 to 100 people left in North America will huddle around some bare cables coming out of the ground near a few spinning wind turbines in Kansas or Iowa. They will take turns charging their cell phones so they can play Candy Crush.

 

As they quickly freeze to death.

 

@wayneh @Adam LaBarbera

One thing I'd love to see here is a thread devoted to hands-on experience with LED lighting. Identify and review.

Sounds like an idea worth exploring.

 

Exactly!
I could replace my 35 watt HPS bulbs with LEDs,

(For saltwater aquarium/corals)..
I've been building my own LED fixtures for MH replacements since around 2007-2008.. (utilizing Cree emitters XPG/XRE series,etc... with meanwell CC drivers)
I've had no problems replacing 250W MH fixtures with only 72W LED fixtures with no discernible difference in coral growth..
Tank temperatures now sit right around room ambient and the need for inline water chillers is gone...
My first LED light has been running ~12 hours a day since 2008
Prior to that I had to replace MH bulbs roughly every year due to output loss/spectral change at $20-30 per bulb or more..
Cost savings have been substantial.

 

Prior to that I had to replace MH bulbs roughly every year

I had trouble with my HPS bulbs dying in 3 years because the line voltage here is 125 volts. I used a 120/208/230 to 24 transformer by connecting 125V to the 208 tap and using the resulting 13.8 v to buck the line down to 111VAC. Now the bulbs are at 10 years and counting.

Yes, they look more like Low Pressure Sodium, but I don't care about the spectrum. I do care about climbing two (2) 20 foot poles every three years to replace a couple of $35 light bulbs.

When I believe I can beat that with LEDs, I will change my evil ways.

 

We get about 3 years out of 400W MH bulbs here at work..
Of course people don't really care about spectral change nearly as much as corals do..
I could tell when my MH's were on their way out just by watching the coral growth/coloration shift.

We have looked at numerous LED retrofits but sadly the "industrial" LED lighting crowd decided they wanted to make big profits right off the bat and the ROI is longer than we wanted...

The "best" LED based "industrial" MH replacement solution I've seen so far is from BigAss Fans..
We ran a demo unit when they came out and they are great..run very cool/built well..
http://www.bigasslight.com/
Great light.. pricing isn't bad for what it is but we were looking at them to replace the 2 x 4ft fluorescent lights over each work station and the ROI wasn't the best and they were a bit over powering for that use.

LED technology is there now.. Just need to find the companies that know what they are doing and implement it properly.

 

As they quickly freeze to death.

Raising the average IQ of the world population of mammals by a few points as each one passes.

 

I just lost one of my 65 watt Crees. Probably a circuit failure as I can still see all the leds - just very dim. Being stubborn, I'm going to see if the guarantee works. It was only a little over 2 years old. Maybe 5 or 10,000 hours.

 

I just lost one of my 65 watt Crees. Probably a circuit failure as I can still see all the leds - just very dim. Being stubborn, I'm going to see if the guarantee works. It was only a little over 2 years old. Maybe 5 or 10,000 hours.

Please post your experience. I've replaced 2 Cree 60W within the 30 day return allowed by Home Depot. Now I have one that failed after less than a year (of less than 3 hours/day); the bulbs have a 10 year warranty (old style). I've been saving it to see if any others fail before going through the hassle of sending to Cree for a replacement.

That's still better than my experience with CFLs.

 

My problem with the "10 year" warranty is the "3 hours per day" part. Who ever came up with that must never have lived in Ohio, during the winter. Who only uses a light for 3hr/day?

 

My problem with the "10 year" warranty is the "3 hours per day" part. Who ever came up with that must never have lived in Ohio, during the winter. Who only uses a light for 3hr/day?

Don't know how they came up with their metrics; it never made much sense to me.

The Cree bulb in question has a 10 year warranty with use limited to 6 hours/day, 7 days a week. It also states that lifetime energy savings is based on 25,000 hours. Using their 6 hours/day restriction, that's 11.4 years; so why isn't the warranty 25,000 hours?

It's a moot point because their new 4Flow design only has a 3 year warranty. But lifetime energy savings is still based on 25,000 hours at 6 hours/day.

I have not had any CFL give the specified lifetime and have not been able to get a single warranty replacement. Either the company had gone out of business or they gave me the runaround.

 

Hmmm..."Calculated" energy savings based on imaginary usage patterns.
Sounds like a car battery I bought. Guaranteed to be a 60 month battery, but the pro-rating for a refund goes to zero in 30 months.
Sucker bait.

 

@#12, or my second wife, "I'll love you forever, or until someone else comes along"

 

Don't know how they came up with their metrics; it never made much sense to me.

The Cree bulb in question has a 10 year warranty with use limited to 6 hours/day, 7 days a week. It also states that lifetime energy savings is based on 25,000 hours. Using their 6 hours/day restriction, that's 11.4 years; so why isn't the warranty 25,000 hours?

It's a moot point because their new 4Flow design only has a 3 year warranty. But lifetime energy savings is still based on 25,000 hours at 6 hours/day.

I have not had any CFL give the specified lifetime and have not been able to get a single warranty replacement. Either the company had gone out of business or they gave me the runaround.

Warranty period does not equal lifespan.. plain and simple..

Length of warranty decision is far more about potential part availability, product lifecycle (not lifespan) and more..

 

Warranty period does not equal lifespan.. plain and simple..

Length of warranty decision is far more about potential part availability, product lifecycle (not lifespan) and more..

Or the fact that your only other option for lighting is cfl - now that incondescent has gone the way of the dodo. Consumers clearly prefer the modern LEDs - instant start, brighter, and better color. Time to increase prices and decrease warranties because they don't have to last 30 years or save energy to encourage consumers to buy them.

 

Or the fact that your only other option for lighting is cfl - now that incondescent has gone the way of the dodo. Consumers clearly prefer the modern LEDs - instant start, brighter, and better color. Time to increase prices and decrease warranties because they don't have to last 30 years or save energy to encourage consumers to buy them.

Pricing of LEDs has only come down... so....
and technology is still rapidly changing so as a manufacturer I wouldn't want long warranty times either..
And really... who keeps a bulb receipt for 10 years...

Just like everything else in life.. you get what you pay for and quality brands (CREE )are out there..

oh and
CFL's scare the crap out of me.. Everyone I've ever had showed massive burns/discoloration/flames,etc.. on the bases of those death swirls.
I'm glad LEDs are here.. No complaints from me and I've got a bunch of them..

 

It is not just the price of the LEDs, it is the development of the off line switching power converters just for LED lamps. Also there are advancements in the low ESR ceramic caps in that voltage range. Right now the 20 years lifetime claim is effectively B.S. But, in 5 years they might actually market a LED bulb that has a high probability of lasting 20 years.

But we are loosing sight of the real issue, LED bulbs draw less power than CF bulbs and LEDs do not contain mercury. The government could care less if the bulb lasts 20 years, or ten, or five, or........ 20 minutes. It draws less energy which means less power plants. No mercury means less protesters outside their offices.

This 20 year lifetime stuff is just marketing crap.

 

Yes, they are more efficient once they are in the socket. The work needed to get an LED bulb made is phenomenal. Collecting higher value ores from tin and zinc refining, separating the gallium ore from the mess. Processing the ore to gallium metal. Converting it to high purity gallium metal (99.9999%). Converting that to Trimethylgallium and packaging it in quart to gallium bubblers (after purifying to 99.9999% or better), all had to be made from trimethyl aluminum - difficult process in itself.

The quantum wells need trimethyl indium (bigger expense since it is a difficult to handle solid that must be purified by sublimation and packaged at a few ounces - sells for about the price of gold.)

All these material are pyrophoric and a whiff of air means fire and complete re leaning of the clean room to get rid of all particular. A

All packaging made in special processes and welds that can handle microtorr vacuum. Everything is cleaned and packaged in a clean room.

Ammonia to make GaN is also high purity - even higher than gallium. Cryogenic distillation.

Analytical equipment to measure ppb levels of contamination - not cheap.

Must pay for a full shipping container to send a few dozen kg of product to Taiwan, China, Korea or Japan (or North Carolina or California). Can it moping pyrophoric materials with other goods so a bunch of waste there.

Most of that organometallic never ends up on a wafer.

Substrates are made of synthetic sapphire - almost half is list as the diamond cutting wheels turns it into dust.

Then, there is additional waste once the wafers are made into lamps.

The whole thing is more of a question of where the energy is saved or lost. Who gets to feel like they are saving the world.