CD4553 not working as it should in simulator

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by ChrisChemist116, May 21, 2012.

  1. ChrisChemist116

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Mar 13, 2009
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    I've been trying to simulate the following circuit on ISIS v.7.7 SP2, but i got the following error: "Simulation is not running in real time due to excessive CPU load", although i tried to use a 74LS373 to bypass this bug still the results were very unstable.

    Is the following circuit alright? It is a 4553 + 4511 counter but it is not working :confused:
     
  2. absf

    Senior Member

    Dec 29, 2010
    1,493
    372
    Yes the circuit should work and it has been made into a kits and sold cheaply. The 4511 has been replaced by 4543 in the new PCB when all the old kits were sold out. Take a look here.

    http://www.escol.com.my/kits/ES-012.html

    Sometimes, I do simulations using proteus and I also get the same error messages, but most of the time I am getting the processor >99% load problem and I have to stop the simulation. Not sure if upgrading my PC to i7 cpu would get rid of my problem. I am using version 7.4.sp3.

    Allen
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  3. ChrisChemist116

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Mar 13, 2009
    78
    1
    Hopefully i was on the right track~ But what's with the error in ISIS?. I'm pretty confident the "load problem" is way beyond changing processor or the version of the simulator.

    I've taken a look at the kit you mentioned, and it shows very close to what i am working on except the fact it uses 7-seg common anode displays, while i do common cathode, but it should work too.

    I know there are tricks you can do on ISIS to bypass that multiplexing thing error such as adding inverters such as in this video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSFZTZL7ODA

    but i dont know if i am doing the right thing. Overall, any ideas on what to do?
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2012
  4. absf

    Senior Member

    Dec 29, 2010
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    I've never gone into that deep playing tricks on the ISIS program. If it simulates, fine. If it doesn't, i'd just make the circuit on breadboard or stripboard. Actually some of the chips that I simulated are not in the library so I have to create it without able to simulate it. My final goal is to make the PCB on the ARES.

    If I were able to buy the circuit in kits form, I wouldnt bother to simulate it.

    Allen
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  5. absf

    Senior Member

    Dec 29, 2010
    1,493
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    Are you trying to do what was in the youtube video to display temperature on 7-seg LED based on the 4553 and 4511 pair? If that is what you intended to do, I would say it would be not easy. I have seen similar chip pairs from RCA that has 4 bits BCD/Bin inputs that might be more suitable for this task.

    Give me some time to search for the chips.

    [edit] I just found the chips. They are CA3161E and CA3162E by Intersil (formally RCA).
    It has an ADC built-in the CA3162E so the temp sensor can be connected directly to it.
    Attached is the schematic from the CA3162E datasheet.

    Allen
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  6. ChrisChemist116

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Mar 13, 2009
    78
    1
    Okay understood about "playing tricks on ISIS". Unfortunatelly i dont have the parts and components required to do the circuit on the breadboard.

    Plus, to simulate the counter would need much more than what it is on the circuit shown, such as additional resistors, capacitors, a 555 timer to generate the clock signal and so on, and frankly that's not the style i use to work. If any additional cost and any unnecessary trip to the electronics store could be avoided i'm for it :)

    I know there are kits and so on, but most of the time they are for one use only and not use the right pedagogy to the average student so i just prefer to pass.

    I insist there are some tricks you can do on ISIS, but i forgotten many of them as it has passed some time since i used the software, my hope was somebody here who knew more about that could give me a hand with the circuit, but if not then i guess i have to keep trying on my own, (geez... i wished to skip that)~

    No. I am not trying to do what is on the youtube video, it was just an example to show what the guy did to bypass that bug in ISIS which doesnt let you to do the 7-seg multiplexing thing properly.

    I have to tell again, ISIS has such timing glitch using multiplexing or i dont know whatsoever but it doesn't work. This problem is not something which can be solved by changing the CPU on the computer is way beyond than that.

    This problem is one among others i found, such as simulating properly music tones, communication via RS232 and so on, but i guess that's because labcenter is not debugging the software properly or doesn't indicate the inherent limitations of ISIS.

    The RCA chips you mentioned i know them very well in fact i have them on my toolbox, if i recall they come from the 70's or early 80's?. Not very sure, but they are outdated, as RCA itself (too bad, i wished this isn't the case but it is).

    To be honest i wouldn't use them now, i think to make a temp sensor such as shown in the video, my choice would be LM35+ ICL7107, plus adition parts, which again can be simulated on ISIS except ISIS doesn't have ICL7107 but it has TC7107 but they're the same, just the fact the .dll for such part has to be updated because it doesn't work properly, (such error was reported in labcenter support back in 2008, seen here http://support.labcenter.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1688&p=5468&hilit=7107#p5468) or using microcontrollers, in the end BASIC programming isn't that bad, but again, all problem lies on Proteus.

    In the end, almost everything can be simulated on ISIS without the need to buy the components, it just requires proper knowledge and use right shortcuts and tricks, but i guess they are hard to find and not everyone is well versed on them, blame to labcenter for that.

    Overall, thanks for your interest on my problem. Since the suggested circuit seems to be right, i'll guess have to dig on my last year notes.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2012
  7. absf

    Senior Member

    Dec 29, 2010
    1,493
    372
    I am sorry I may be too harsh on putting conclusion on what you have said. Matter of facts I dont know any tricks that I can play on ISIS and AFAIK Proteus is one of the 2 simulators I know that was able to simulate MCU and MPU. Recently I know flowcode V was very good but doing in a different way. May be we should give more time to Labcenter or wait for the PC to become more powerful before most of the thing we wished for can be fulfilled. Was version 8.0.0 coming out soon? Or maybe the people are not going to make ISIS too perfect that they would be out of jobs....;)

    Our PC is not as powerful as the processors used in flight simulator for the
    Boeing 777 or some of the Zigs used in manufacturing industries. As for me I am quite contented for what my PC can do. This was impossible 20 years ago to have virtual parts running on virtual circuits with virtual test equipments. Not on my Apple II+ at least.:D

    Some of the things you said may be right, but I am not going to comment on them. What I would say is, let's wait and see and time will tell. I also hope that one day we dont have to buy any parts and everything could be simulated on a PC. Well, it could be a wonderful sight and I hope I am able to wait for the day to come... But who knows:) So at the mean time I will keep filling my junk box with electronic parts....

    Allen
     
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