CD4017 Stacker Circuit

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Ryan_Shephard, May 9, 2009.

  1. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    OK... I've seen it on YouTube, so I know it can be done. Unfortunately I cannot seem to find out what (IC?, capacitors?, relays? transistors?) they are using to keep the LED circuits powered on the preceeding LED's once the 4017 switches to the next output.

    I AM still fairly new to the electronic scene, so please be kind ;)

    What I AM looking for is using the CD4017 and a sequence of LEDs to show the progressive "ready state" of sequencing components:

    12VDC input
    555 timers sequence/delay/prolong the assorted components
    There is a "firing" relay that's set only to be in "closed" state once the other components have "reset" to their original positions/states.

    I'd like each component, sequentially, to fire an LED (starting at the bottem). These need to stay lit, as the following components each light up a progressive led, until the led "bar" is fully lit, visually signalling that the "firing" sequence is ready to be repeated. The signal from this starting relay will be used as the reset for the 4017, which needs to wait for each of the reset states from the components to fire the LEDs again.

    IF there is a previous thread that covers this, can someone please point me in the right direction?

    Otherwise, some suggestions or links to similar projects would be greatly appreciated!

    Thanks!
     
  2. Bernard

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 7, 2008
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    Try the thread by Oxbo Rene ,LED sequencing, page 74. Uses 4017 just for four LED, but can be easily expanded, skipping " 0 " which is on at reset , there are 9 positions available.
     
  3. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    No, Oxbo's circuit can't be expanded beyond 4 LEDs without a driver circuit, as the 4017 has very limited current source ability - particularly if you want to drive logic with it at the same time.
     
  4. Bernard

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    Something to chew on: Four to nine components, A-D for now. Operation starts with PB switch closure, Q1 advances to out. 1,A, Comp. A receives visual signal[LED] and high on AND gate Q-A. If A is ready ,second input to Q-A goes H, giving a clock pulse to Q1 & Q2, Q2-A 's LED lights up, Q1 advances. Each comp. is therefore interigated in turn and is registered sequentilly on LED bar graph.When Q2-D goes H, firing circuit is enabled.Reset sequence to be determined. ? does the ground shake when Fire button pushed? "Fire In The Hole"
     
  5. DonQ

    Active Member

    May 6, 2009
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    How about just using a serial to parallel shift register. Clock in a fixed value and it will progress up the shift register, changing each successive bit one at a time. You can do 8 bits in one 14 pin package, or up to 12 bits in a 20-pin package. These can just be daisy-chained for more bits.
     
  6. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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  7. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    HEHE!
    NO! The ground doesn't "shake" ;)
    Its for a custom magazine-fed paintball rocket launcher (foam rockets) that fires in semi-auto (similar in looks to the auto grenade launcher used by the US military, but FAR less lethal! 8P)
    I'm running the bolt, ejector, and ejector door off of relays and 555s to time the air cylinder valves, along with a safety circuit to ensure all is reset for the next shot before allowing the trigger to fire. The LED bar was going to represent the reset states of the components (My older son though it would be "cool" to watch an expanding bar tell him the unit was "recharging"). This all happens in approx 1500ms, but I thought I'd look into it anyway...

    As for the above hand-drawn circuits, does it matter whether I use "P" or "N" transistors? (Not yet comfortably familiar with transistors... Working on it!)

    P.S. In reference to the "driver" IC, what designation would I be looking for to drive a 10 LED set?
    P.P.S. Thanks for all the info to chew on ;)
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  8. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    Excellent stuff (Have read it). However, I'm not exactly sure what to make of the suggestion in the quote (Must be over my head...)

    P.S. The use of the transistors in Oxbo Rene's redesign: Are these being used as "switches/Vcc sources" to hold the LEDs on after the signal shifts to the next output? (Learning a LOT that I was unfamiliar with reading these posts, so still trying to soak up all the new information!)
     
  9. Bernard

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    Aug 7, 2008
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    Just a "Poof" no bang, it's a let down, but I can live with it. No discreet transistors used, just 7 diodes + the 8 LED's, of which 4 not needed as we don't need to shine a LED on the " componet" relays ? are there only 4 relays to monitor? As suggested by DonQ, Bill_Marsden, & Bernard[ Oxbo Rene's epic], a seiial in, parallel out shift register would work, eliminating the discrete diodes. Still need LED driver, maybe another IC.A single "1" would be loaded into Q1, a continuous load of "1's" into Q2, every thing else stays the same, almost. If all components are ready when interigated, the bar would would be lit-up in <a msec.
     
  10. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    6 relays (components) and 3-4 micro switches (confirming mechanical resets)

    I would be what you would refer to as a novice for certain! I only picked this up 5 months ago when I discovered I could miniaturize my plans, as PC board relays were powerful enough to fire the small cylinder valves. THEN, I was estatic when I discovered the 555s, and realized I could remove much of the heavier, mechanical switching and timing. It all snowballed from there, and now I'm hooked! :D

    You'll have to give me a bit to chew on all this new info, as it borders on brain overload! lol

    Thanks for all the help!

    P.S. I'm still drawing blanks about the "Serial in Parallel out Shift Register" Are there any previous posts/diagrams explaining this?

    P.P.S. I will scan my schematics as of so far (does not include the LED bar...). Perhaps (once I figure out how to attach the files) it might shed some light (or even bring a few chuckles! ;) ) on what I've been trying so far.. The mechanicals are 80% done, but have yet to start the electronics, as still hammering out the details.

    P.P.P.S In the Bill Marsden link (shown above), in Blog #11, I see now how the IC is being used only to switch the transistors (Which are taking the load and supplying adequate voltage), but when the 4017 switches from one output to the next, would the LEDs previously lit NOT turn off? Or am I missing something?
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2009
  11. Bernard

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    Here is a block diagram of a serial in, 8 bit parallel out shift register. It has 8 "D" type flip/flops. A L[low] on the reset, or clear input, returns all outputs to L. If a H is placed at DATA input, it will be loaded into the first FF on the rising edge of the clock, and will appear as H at Q-A output.LED attached will be lit. Change Data to L , next clock moves H to next stage, putting a L in first stage, LED off on Q-A, on at Q-B. Each sucessive clock moves H down the line. Clear register and make Data H ,now at each clock a H is advanced & is replaced with another H.LED's will light in succesion with previous LED's staying lit. Just more to chew on. Example LED has about 10mA @ +12 V-DD [B+ for old folks].
     
  12. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    A CD4517 would be a good base chip.

    You'll need a driver for them though, something like this...

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Bernard

    AAC Fanatic!

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    CD4517 comes up 64 bit, 8 should do. How about 4015 2X 4 bit or 74C164, 8 bit.
     
  14. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    OK...Here it is in all it's ugliness!
    (Trouble getting many of the pencil marks to scan properly, so did a quick job on it in Paint. Also, because it was on legal-sized paper, had to merge halves.) Inverted the B/W as was easier on the eyes, and easier to read the remaining pencil...

    At least it should give an idea what I have come up with so far...

    P.S. Thanks for the above clarifications/IC names! EXACTLY what I was looking for! Think I can incorporate one or more of those ideas into my project! ;)

    P.P.S. I might even replace a few "controlling" relays to transistors for switching purposes. AKA Ejector Reset, Trigger Reset, etc. (Sounds like they consume a little less power...)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  15. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    Have converted NE555"A"+NE555"B" and NE555"C"+NE555"D" into x2 NE556's in the above schematic (SHOULD have done this to begin with had I known more at the time...) Also, have replaced the Ejector Reset Relay (Top LH side of Control Module Schematic) and Trigger Enable Relay (Middle of Control Module Schematic) with NPN transistors.

    Question: Would an LM3914 work for my application? AND would I need transistors to drive the output signal? (The data sheets don't show any external power source...Was wondering...)

    All of the above mentioned IC's look good to me, but this one has 10 outputs to match the 10 LED Bar Graph I was looking at picking up...
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  16. Bernard

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 7, 2008
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    The output side of a LM 3914 would be fine, but the input will be a cave of snakes, as it is an analog V input. Might use a 10 input scaled adder, using OP amp to make a stair-step generator. Adding another SR chip would be a lot more certain, and easier.
     
  17. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    OK...
    A lot of what you just posted is still Greeek to me! ;)

    I was, however, wondering how much different the 4015 listed above was from the 4014 (Look VERY similar on the spec sheets...)?

    IF I can do this without a multitude of supporting chips, all the better!

    I WAS going to add a resistor between the "oneshot" 555 and the LM3914 to drop the signal voltage to the recommended 0-5Volts... Thought this would be enough to keep it happy...No?
     
  18. Bernard

    AAC Fanatic!

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    "No". Think of the LM3914 as a bar-graph voltmeter scaled to 0-5V. 0V in = dark bar, 2.5V = 1/2 bar, 5V = full bar. Shift registers: 4014- 8 bit,parallel " inputs", only 3 outputs = no good ; 4015- 2-4bit registers, easily cascaded to 4, 8 , 12 bits, with buffered outputs, capable of driving LED's, OK; 74C 164- 8bit parallel out. OK The Greek was to steer you away from the LM3914, but is reasonally factual. Your schematic is verry impressive, but I can't read much of it. Even tho thr IC's can drive LED's directly , total package power disipation not to exceed specs.? more Greek?
     
  19. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    Nope! Not Greek this time! ;) ...Except maybe the "bits" stuff... No problems though.

    Thanks for the heads up!

    Only reason I asked about the 4014, was that I had easy access to one. I DO like the idea of being able to drive the LEDs without extra extrenious parts!

    I will be reposting the updated schematics (hopefully more visible this time, though my handwriting is always atrocious! hehe)

    Only concern now, is that the 1.2Ah Battery will be MAJORLY overtaxed...
    However, it only needs to last 9 cycles in total. If I have to go larger, I will have to get creative in incorporating the (larger size?) (Currently designed for a Sealed Lead Acid unit). Not sure, even though smaller NiMH battery are decently rated (Amp Hours), I suspect they don't use the same "formula" to rate them...

    And, again, thanks! I was having trouble finding/deciphering what I was looking for on the web :D
     
  20. Ryan_Shephard

    Thread Starter Member

    May 9, 2009
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    This attachment would be off topic, IF I wasn't going to incorporate it into the above drawings, and IF we weren't posting about LED Bar Graphs...

    Pretty much all of the people who replied will find this elementary drivel, but some, like myself might find this useful!

    It incorporates a LED Graph bar similar to the one I've been trying to get info about for the "Ready" display, but IT monitors the Battery Voltage on a 12VDC curcuit and displays the battery's health in "realtime" using Zeners and resistors to "fire" the LEDs at a minimum voltage; 14V being fully lit from bottem to top.

    P.S. ...using Red LEDs at 2.1V / 20mA
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
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