capturing energy

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Horatio, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Horatio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jan 23, 2011
    0
    0
    Good day Bill,

    I hold no degrees, and I find the topic interesting. I have a thought about "theories".. As long as a theory remains unproven, then it's open for examination.

    In discussing Tesla, and his experiments with transmission and recovery of power wirelessly, Tesla lived in a world un-swamped and uncluttered with transmissions from any source he himself did not create. In many metropolitan areas, we are drowning in a sea of RF, so much so that if we could put on a pair of glasses that was able to see those frequencies outside of our tiny visible spectrum, it would probably be worse than a foggy day in San Francisco...

    So, my "theory" is that if most all available frequency radiation could be captured simultaneously - including that of electric motors, cell phones - excluding none, would the "inverse square law" still apply?

    I understand how it does for light, however, the examples I have ever seen have to do with the visible spectrum... Or a single frequency of radio..

    Thinking is my hobby - Tesla is a curiousity.. I have less credentials than Thomas Edison..

    Thanks for your time... Bump the topic.. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2011
  2. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    15,815
    282
    This is a bit of a hijack from the original topic - http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=31942&page=5

    Stated that way, it is a question, not a theory. Supposing a black body antenna that was sensitive to all EM frequencies, how would you propose to capture all that energy? - a shell built around the earth? One might ask also - how would the simultaneity of capture affect anything?

    It would have no effect on the inverse square law, although it would capture all the energy not radiated into the earth itself. or absorbed by the atmosphere.

    You might be interested in reading some of Freeman Dyson's material. In at least one volume, he speaks of a "Type II" civilization which needs so much energy that it constructs a shell around the local sun to capture all its output.
     
  3. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    i probably have less credentials than you, but i think that in order to make the energy use full you would need to modify the frequencies so they all lined up, otherwise you would essentially have useless white noise, on every spectrum


    also, I think another interesting point that is somewhat related is the amount of radiation that escapes the earth atmosphere, back in the 60's-70's, most of the broadcasts weren't directionally controlled and shot a lot of RF energy into space, but with new technologies for directing energy, less than 2% of that now shoots off into space.
     
  4. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    The subject of harnessing energy keeps coming up. Supposedly it is going to be done to charge a cell phone, though I haven't seen anything to suggest it is practical. I don't believe it will happen for several reasons. The biggest is that energy is paid for by other people for other jobs, ie communications. It is not waste energy, it is just energy someone has chosen not to use for its intended purpose. If they change their minds it needs to be there.

    Even so most people do not seem to realize how truly low the levels are. Think µV and lower, much lower. It is a miracle of electronics we are able to pull the data embedded and use it, a miracle made possible by inputting lots of extra energy into amplifiers.

    There is lot of energy to be harvested. Solar, wind, tidal, all are abundant. And yet we don't have a way to harvest it economically. People are trying, if you read the science forum I post the articles showing some of the latest research. Even then you have to be skeptical, about half the announcements are self serving articles trying for funding. The other half are real, but not yet ready for prime time. Still, things are happening for those who are interested. You have to read, and be willing to read some very dry material concerning physics and science to pick out the real meat.

    This is why I refer to myself and a lot of my fellows here as techie geeks, we have put in the reading time and love it. I do not claim to understand all I read, but I put the effort in.
     
  5. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    I couldn't agree more, Im personally amazed that my little cellphone can transmit signal that can be picked up by a tower miles away, let alone 1000's of cellphones simultaneously, if someone had told me this would be possible without proof, i wouldn't have believed it.
     
  6. Horatio

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jan 23, 2011
    0
    0
    I thank you all for your thought provoking answers, and some great reading sources. My original concept came to me after having used an SWR Meter, which is not discreet as to frequency, has not one battery in it, yet responds with enough power to move a needle from zero to pegged when even in close proximity to a transmitter - Police car, CB radio, commercial radio station.

    It's antenna is probably no larger than 6" and nothing more than a piece of stiff wire.

    I am not sure of all the dynamics of the circuitry, however, I agree if one were to try and collect RF/VHF/UHF and all the other invisible spectrum of radiation, one would have to have a way to funnel it into some form of collector - and would probably have to be in itself directional.

    Thanks for your thoughts and time... I also enjoy Stirling Engines, and seeing how natural magnets can be made to do stuff.. Those are probably other threads though...
     
  7. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    again, i have very, very little experience in this area, but i would assume more energy is useable because it is a single source of transmission, if you have multiple sources, the crests and troughs will most likley not line up, nd you have destructive interference, like trying to pick up energy off ac lines, ones positive, ones negative, nothing happens

    again, i may be very wrong in my assumptions, if so i would appreciate if bill or someone would step in and make amends
     
  8. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    1,584
    435
    You are looking to capture energy,yet your cell phone needs
    battery energy to transmit. All the freq's hitting your antenna
    are grounded out except the one you are tuned to. Just Imagine
    all the different freq's that is hitting your cell phone antenna now.
    Other than your cell phone freq. they they are grounded out.
    A simple curcuit,If someone will draw it for,come on guys.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  9. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    was that directed towards my post?
    if so, then i realize that it probbly should have read single source at aa single frequency

    EDIT
    the simplest RF circuit i know of actually, a crystal radio
     
  10. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    1,584
    435
    You are making Loosewire look good, keep posting.
     
  11. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    The only way im making you look good is by confirming what you say, which is simply confirming what i say, sooo.....
    mutual recursive cycle of betterment? 0.o
    :)
     
  12. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    1,584
    435
    Draw the tuning curcuit and add agc for auto gain for fun.
    Get you a funny plastic box with wire and parts and the
    book that go's with it.
     
  13. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    Me or horatio?
     
  14. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    Guys, meet Loosewire (as the sharks circle the waters).

    That sea of RF is still not enough to light a cigarette in a day. When I say the levels are incredibly small, they are. Ever use an oscope? I have, and I've seen the energy out there. If you are next to an antenna to a broadcast you might be able to get something, but other than that...

    By the way, there is a little law that covers that, it's called theft of service. That energy was paid for by someone else, complete with a license from the FCC. They get a little tiffed when people start using what they paid hard money for is diverted for other uses. :D

    You are much better using the parabolic gathering sunlight to light that cigarette. Radio Shack used to give them away.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  15. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    Hi loosewire

    Bill, i know this, i accept this, i agree with this, i have said nothing against this as far as i know
     
  16. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    Nope, just making the point you would have trouble lighting an LED off the ambient RF energy. That horse, it still wiggles, so I must beat it some more.
     
  17. loosewire

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 25, 2008
    1,584
    435
    All I was doing was to ground out freq's that the radio was not tuned to receive.
    I said nothing about high powered r.f. signals,where did that come from,no l.e.d.'s
    mentioned or r.f. energy on my part. How did I become shark bait?
     
  18. Kermit2

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 5, 2010
    3,792
    948
    The big advance will come with discovery of a capacitor type that can be built to scale and can hold the energy of a lightning strike.

    :) Hey, at least my idea is Possible. :)
     
  19. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    Not shark bait, the shark. :D :p

    That capacitor better be bipolar, as lightning can go both ways, though I remember reading 90% of the strikes are one way.
     
  20. magnet18

    Senior Member

    Dec 22, 2010
    1,232
    124
    Bill, i dont think your horse will ever die(proving a negtive), but throwing it to the sharks seems to have gotten it to lay still
    loosewire, it seemed to me that he was indicting taht yow were a shark, not shrkbait.
    [edit]
    bill beat me to it :p
     
Loading...