MaxHeadRoom
- Joined Jul 18, 2013
- 28,702
Unless of course they live in Europe and other Continents other than N.A.
Which BTW also has 240 residential service.
Max.
Can touching 120VAC kill you?
- Thread starter rlm0360
- Start date
Which BTW also has 240 residential service.
Max.
InspectorGadget
- Joined Nov 5, 2010
- 215
No doubt.Unless of course they live in Europe and other Continents other than N.A.
Which BTW also has 240 residential service.
Max.
But if you look back at the logic of the statement I was responding to, he was saying 120V was the major cause of electrocution death, therefore 120V is dangerous. If you take that logic to 240V, it's even more absurd, that 120V would be the major cause of electrocution death.
OK, so that's kind of a joke, showing how tricky the logic can be. Yes, 240V shock is probably the major cause of electrocution deaths in 240V countries, because people will only likely have contact with 240V electricity. But the incidence of death from electrocution at 240V is still pretty low, I would bet. More than 120V, to be sure, but still below the REALLY dangerous threshold of around 500V.
And back to the semantics of it all.
Going by numbers I would say that in every persons lifetime they come in contact with their home utility power at least once and survive it just fine. For most of us it happens once or twice a year if not more and we are all still here.
So with that I say that under the vast majority of situations obviously no it is not lethal. It's only I under special circumstances that it is. If your old and infirm or young or are in environmental conditions outside of the typical ones we all normally get ourselves shocked in then yest it lethal for some. The vast majority of time no it's not.
Yes 120 VAC can kill you but statistically when weighted as real life non-lethal experiences to lethal ones the odds are greatly in your favor that you will survive just fine and thus it was a non-lethal experience.
For me, the ratio of non-lethal (but potentially could have been) to actually lethal is probably well over 20,000 to 0!
Going by numbers I would say that in every persons lifetime they come in contact with their home utility power at least once and survive it just fine. For most of us it happens once or twice a year if not more and we are all still here.
So with that I say that under the vast majority of situations obviously no it is not lethal. It's only I under special circumstances that it is. If your old and infirm or young or are in environmental conditions outside of the typical ones we all normally get ourselves shocked in then yest it lethal for some. The vast majority of time no it's not.
Yes 120 VAC can kill you but statistically when weighted as real life non-lethal experiences to lethal ones the odds are greatly in your favor that you will survive just fine and thus it was a non-lethal experience.
For me, the ratio of non-lethal (but potentially could have been) to actually lethal is probably well over 20,000 to 0!
@InspectorGadget
Let's see, I present peer-reviewed and/or reliable data from government research sources, but you don't believe it. You present vague recollections of something out of context from something said in "cardiology" at a no-name medical school.
The question remains, can shock from 110V AC kill you? The answer is yes. Why do you find that so hard to accept in the face of overwhelming evidence?
It is not a question of whether it will kill you 99% of the time or 1% of the time. It can be deadly.
Now, if you have data on the incidence of electrocution death in humans versus voltage, please present it. That would be interesting. Even more intriguing would be how those experiments were done.
John
Let's see, I present peer-reviewed and/or reliable data from government research sources, but you don't believe it. You present vague recollections of something out of context from something said in "cardiology" at a no-name medical school.
The question remains, can shock from 110V AC kill you? The answer is yes. Why do you find that so hard to accept in the face of overwhelming evidence?
It is not a question of whether it will kill you 99% of the time or 1% of the time. It can be deadly.
Now, if you have data on the incidence of electrocution death in humans versus voltage, please present it. That would be interesting. Even more intriguing would be how those experiments were done.
John
InspectorGadget
- Joined Nov 5, 2010
- 215
John, I agreed with you all along that it "can" kill you. But the TS question was can him "touching" it kill him.
Your NIOSH reference was about the fraction of electrocution deaths that were caused by 120V versus other voltages, where the TS question was about the likelihood of a 120V encounter to produce death. Entirely the opposite. Can't you see the difference?
And apparently you choose to ignore the EFSI article (cited again) which answers the TS question that among household electrocutions with 120V only 0.2% of them result in death. And the real number (due to a likely higher number of unreported electrocutions that didn't result in injury or death) is probably more like between 0.1% and 0.05%.
If you insist on answering a different question in order to advance a program of fear, so be it. But there's no need to try to insult me personally. When you have to resort to personal attacks it usually means you know your arguments don't hold water.
Your NIOSH reference was about the fraction of electrocution deaths that were caused by 120V versus other voltages, where the TS question was about the likelihood of a 120V encounter to produce death. Entirely the opposite. Can't you see the difference?
And apparently you choose to ignore the EFSI article (cited again) which answers the TS question that among household electrocutions with 120V only 0.2% of them result in death. And the real number (due to a likely higher number of unreported electrocutions that didn't result in injury or death) is probably more like between 0.1% and 0.05%.
If you insist on answering a different question in order to advance a program of fear, so be it. But there's no need to try to insult me personally. When you have to resort to personal attacks it usually means you know your arguments don't hold water.
Well here you go per the National Safety Council's findings.
Electrocution. 1 in 14,695 but it's lumped in with three other things so given and even 4 way split I dug further and found that the overall numbers for anyone's odds od dying from electrocution in the next year is around 1 in 894,227 or statistically on its own not even in the top 100!
http://www.nsc.org/learn/safety-knowledge/Pages/injury-facts-chart.aspx
and http://www.riskcomm.com/visualaids/riskscale/datasources.php
So could 120 VAC kill you? Well, yea but by the odds are you are at least 4x more likely to choke to death on your next meal.
In your lifetime maybe 1 in 8500.
In a traffic accident 1 in 77.
By your own hands 1 in 122.
http://danger.mongabay.com/injury_odds.htm
Electrocution. 1 in 14,695 but it's lumped in with three other things so given and even 4 way split I dug further and found that the overall numbers for anyone's odds od dying from electrocution in the next year is around 1 in 894,227 or statistically on its own not even in the top 100!
http://www.nsc.org/learn/safety-knowledge/Pages/injury-facts-chart.aspx
and http://www.riskcomm.com/visualaids/riskscale/datasources.php
So could 120 VAC kill you? Well, yea but by the odds are you are at least 4x more likely to choke to death on your next meal.
In your lifetime maybe 1 in 8500.
In a traffic accident 1 in 77.
By your own hands 1 in 122.
http://danger.mongabay.com/injury_odds.htm
You mean like cats have 9 lives? ...
When I saw the broom just thought that maybe he was tried to ride on the broom to fly as witch and the final he got the electric shock ...
You are correct. It is not ALWAYS fatal but can be depending on how good the connection is. I have zapped myself many times at 120 V AC (RMS) as I suppose many here have. I would not suggest the practice. It does make one aware of the definition of consciousness, biologically. The nervous system is overpowered even at that low a current. It certainly CAN be fatal.
.
OK, ENOUGH!
The question is: "CAN touching 120VAC kill you?"
The answer is: "Yes, it CAN."
Will it?: "Perhaps. Perhaps not."
Can I tell you it's safe? "No, I can not."
IF I told you it was safe and you touched it and died as a result - who would be to blame? Me for saying you're safe? Or you for believing me? So from a liability standpoint - I'll only say "Yes, it CAN."
Have I been hit by 120 VAC? Yup. Still here. and no, I'm not a "Ghose Writer". In fact, the very last time I was hit it was because of doing something stupid. I had an electrical outlet that was acting up intermittently. So I removed the outlet from the wall WITHOUT FIRST TURNING OFF THE BREAKER. (stupid move for sure) Nevertheless, being careful not to touch the hot and the neutral at the same time I grasped the outlet from the neutral side. I then grabbed the nearest screwdriver handy to tighten the hot screw. It was an all metal screwdriver. You should be saying "Well that was a stupid thing to do", and yes it certainly was. FULL ON 120VAC FROM RIGHT HAND TO LEFT. DIRECTLY THROUGH MY CHEST. I then got up and deiced to do the smart things: 1) turn off the breaker. 2) get the right tool for the job.
It's not often a single mistake results in problems. While just one mistake CAN be your last, it's usually more complex than that. One mistake may carry a 5% risk (numbers made up - don't nobody go quoting me saying my numbers were way off)(I'm just making an example). If ONE mistake carries a 5% risk then presumably a second mistake would likewise carry the same chances. But when combined, 5 x 5 = 25%. Still, significantly more risky, but odds are still in your favor. And add in a third - 125%.
OK, in the real world it doesn't work like that. But the point is that you run the risk of electrocution. It would be foolish of me to say "Go ahead, it's safe" when it's everything BUT safe.
In all your endeavors to work with electronics and with electricity - safety should be the first, second and third priorities you observe. You may be hit in the jaw with 36,000 volts (I was - it hurt). You may encounter voltages as high as 50,000 V. In fact, I bet you already have. Especially if you live in dry climates. I'm talking about static electricity. When you grab a door knob and feel the snap of ESD (Electro Static Discharge) it's going to be 3,000 V or more. And 3,000 V is about the threshold for what you can feel. It's that static discharge that you DON'T feel that is most dangerous to ELECTRONICS. But the whole point is that you will encounter electricity in many forms and in many ways. Whether you live or die from the experience - is YOUR responsibility to keep yourself safe.
I laughed my azz off watching those two videos of the guy shocking himself. You can classify him as an expert idiot. He showed you what you can do - and how you can screw things up. He put himself at risk - successfully surviving, and that's pretty much what I expected. But more so than being educational it was highly entertaining. Still, electricity is not to be taken lightly. It CAN kill you.
Be safe.
Now, somebody - LOCK this thread. Please.
The question is: "CAN touching 120VAC kill you?"
The answer is: "Yes, it CAN."
Will it?: "Perhaps. Perhaps not."
Can I tell you it's safe? "No, I can not."
IF I told you it was safe and you touched it and died as a result - who would be to blame? Me for saying you're safe? Or you for believing me? So from a liability standpoint - I'll only say "Yes, it CAN."
Have I been hit by 120 VAC? Yup. Still here. and no, I'm not a "Ghose Writer". In fact, the very last time I was hit it was because of doing something stupid. I had an electrical outlet that was acting up intermittently. So I removed the outlet from the wall WITHOUT FIRST TURNING OFF THE BREAKER. (stupid move for sure) Nevertheless, being careful not to touch the hot and the neutral at the same time I grasped the outlet from the neutral side. I then grabbed the nearest screwdriver handy to tighten the hot screw. It was an all metal screwdriver. You should be saying "Well that was a stupid thing to do", and yes it certainly was. FULL ON 120VAC FROM RIGHT HAND TO LEFT. DIRECTLY THROUGH MY CHEST. I then got up and deiced to do the smart things: 1) turn off the breaker. 2) get the right tool for the job.
It's not often a single mistake results in problems. While just one mistake CAN be your last, it's usually more complex than that. One mistake may carry a 5% risk (numbers made up - don't nobody go quoting me saying my numbers were way off)(I'm just making an example). If ONE mistake carries a 5% risk then presumably a second mistake would likewise carry the same chances. But when combined, 5 x 5 = 25%. Still, significantly more risky, but odds are still in your favor. And add in a third - 125%.
OK, in the real world it doesn't work like that. But the point is that you run the risk of electrocution. It would be foolish of me to say "Go ahead, it's safe" when it's everything BUT safe.
In all your endeavors to work with electronics and with electricity - safety should be the first, second and third priorities you observe. You may be hit in the jaw with 36,000 volts (I was - it hurt). You may encounter voltages as high as 50,000 V. In fact, I bet you already have. Especially if you live in dry climates. I'm talking about static electricity. When you grab a door knob and feel the snap of ESD (Electro Static Discharge) it's going to be 3,000 V or more. And 3,000 V is about the threshold for what you can feel. It's that static discharge that you DON'T feel that is most dangerous to ELECTRONICS. But the whole point is that you will encounter electricity in many forms and in many ways. Whether you live or die from the experience - is YOUR responsibility to keep yourself safe.
I laughed my azz off watching those two videos of the guy shocking himself. You can classify him as an expert idiot. He showed you what you can do - and how you can screw things up. He put himself at risk - successfully surviving, and that's pretty much what I expected. But more so than being educational it was highly entertaining. Still, electricity is not to be taken lightly. It CAN kill you.
Be safe.
Now, somebody - LOCK this thread. Please.
YES!! It can kill you!
Don't worry, they say this is to be expected past a certain point in one's life.
My day so far, or another way to nearly die at home. (no electricity needed)
A dead tree in my yard was blown over in a storm recently, putting it at roughly the angle you see in the photo. It's bigger than it looks in the picture. Today is the day to bring it down.
I have some experience with chainsaws and I carefully cut and back-cut it so as to not pinch my saw, to release the tensions in a controlled way, and to leave myself an escape route. All went to plan. EXCEPT, when the cut was completed, the tree slid down slightly and slowly pushed the trunk portion back to its upright position. It remained perched on the corner as shown. The tree and trunk are fully severed, but balanced precariously on that little corner. Now what?
I waited a while to see if the wind might break the balance, but no. The solution was my BFH, or Big Effing Hammer. Three blows to the trunk, towards the right in the photo, and down it came. That was exciting. It was still held up by nearby trees, so I had to repeat my process two more times. It's down now, and so am I. That might be enough for the day.
A dead tree in my yard was blown over in a storm recently, putting it at roughly the angle you see in the photo. It's bigger than it looks in the picture. Today is the day to bring it down.
I have some experience with chainsaws and I carefully cut and back-cut it so as to not pinch my saw, to release the tensions in a controlled way, and to leave myself an escape route. All went to plan. EXCEPT, when the cut was completed, the tree slid down slightly and slowly pushed the trunk portion back to its upright position. It remained perched on the corner as shown. The tree and trunk are fully severed, but balanced precariously on that little corner. Now what?
I waited a while to see if the wind might break the balance, but no. The solution was my BFH, or Big Effing Hammer. Three blows to the trunk, towards the right in the photo, and down it came. That was exciting. It was still held up by nearby trees, so I had to repeat my process two more times. It's down now, and so am I. That might be enough for the day.
Yes, but my question was "Can a tree kill you?" and not about how practical rational sense and safety makes it very unlikely in day to day interactions with trees.
Sure a big tree could kill you but what about a smaller one and where do we draw the line on safely interacting with trees?
And what about if you are old or very young or not of the best fitness and health? Then what?
Or a branch or a twig under specific conditions?
Or heaven forbid, a purposely made sharp pointy stick????
Sure a big tree could kill you but what about a smaller one and where do we draw the line on safely interacting with trees?
And what about if you are old or very young or not of the best fitness and health? Then what?
Or a branch or a twig under specific conditions?
Or heaven forbid, a purposely made sharp pointy stick????
Can it? Yes it can. And if you read all the post in this thread you might notice that most if not all of the regulars here have been hit with mains voltage in their country.
But one thing to take notice of, is that none have actually said that they have done it on purpose to show that it is not lethal (or even showed a will to do so). Because it is very unpleasant and the risk is not worth taking...
But one thing to take notice of, is that none have actually said that they have done it on purpose to show that it is not lethal (or even showed a will to do so). Because it is very unpleasant and the risk is not worth taking...
