Can it be done? -- Can you work a metal canned solenoid from...

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by Dr.killjoy, Jul 18, 2015.

  1. Dr.killjoy

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2013
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    I am not sure if its even possible but here it goes.. Can you work a metal canned solenoid from a max of 2ft without being attached to the coil ???
     
  2. Lestraveled

    Well-Known Member

    May 19, 2014
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    Say What??? Try that again. A little more specific please.
     
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  3. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    Sure. Just prod it with a broomstick. :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2015
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  4. Alec_t

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 17, 2013
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    What isn't attached to the coil? Unless some power supply is attached the solenoid can't operate.
     
  5. Dr.killjoy

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Apr 28, 2013
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    Sorry for the confusing ..I have a metal canned solenoid that works say a cable ... Can I induce a voltage or current in the solenoid to make it operate from a distance of about 2' max without being attached to the solenoid it self ???
     
  6. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    I think the metal can will shield it from all but some very extreme magnetic field. In a field that powerful, it would jump across the room before it would act like a solenoid. If you make the frequency of the magnetic field high enough that the can/solenoid doesn't move as a whole, the frequency will make the magnetic field even less effective because of the shielding canister.
     
  7. AnalogKid

    Distinguished Member

    Aug 1, 2013
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    To the TS: Sorry, no.

    With or without a shield can, and no matter what the (secret!) size of the solenoid is, or it's (secret!) operating voltage, or it's (secret!) power source characteristics (AC or DC). - no.

    No matter what the details are, it won't work. If it is a DC solenoid, then it can't work because of Faraday's Law of Induction. Only alternating or varying current can be transferred between two coils (inductors), so no matter how large the coils or the energy suppies are, you can't move DC power this way.

    To move AC power either to an AC solenoid or to a AC/DC converter for the DC solenoid, the two-foot distance is a killer. You are basically describing an air-core transformer, the basis for inductive loop comm systems and wireless phone chargers. Wireless chargers move a few watts, but the distance is 1/8" inch. To move just one watt through such a system at 2 feet would take hundreds of watts in the "primary" coil (probably more like thousands). And the coils would be huge. Theoretically, maybe; practically - no.

    ak
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2015
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  8. Brownout

    Well-Known Member

    Jan 10, 2012
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    You can use any number of remote control types to operate a solenoid from a distance. You must have a receiver and power source connected to your device.
     
  9. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    You are just being negative. When innovating and inventing, you should start each sentance with "yes, and..." That way you don't put a damper on innovation. We had some innovation gurus come to our office recently. They were from Corporate and "came to help". So, after shooting down a half-dozen of their ideas, they told me about their "yes and.." Strategy. It was amazing how quickly that strategy helped me.

    So, back to the problem at hand. Instead of saying no, I think you should say, "yes, and we can get to your project the day after pigs fly. "

    I used something similar in the office that day. My problem was suddenly solved when they left.
     
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  10. KMoffett

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 19, 2007
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    GopherT'


    But then

    o_O
    Ken
     
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  11. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    I need a beer. Your first video made me so frustrated that I felt like I was at work. Thanks for ruining my Sunday evening. :mad:
     
  12. djsfantasi

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 11, 2010
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    I am in tears... I was in that meeting! And many like it...
     
  13. KMoffett

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 19, 2007
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    Sorry! ;) I can empathize.

    At one time I was a low end manager of a small department in a company that was being merged with another company. I read "Dilbert". At that time they were going through a merger too. I would see a distressing cartoon about their merger...and two weeks later "we" would have the same stupid thing happen to us. :(

    Ken
     
  14. alfacliff

    Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2013
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    " just being negative"? is it negative to try over and over to break the laws of physics? is it going to be less impossible just because you think positive? the only way to trsansfer enough power to rowk a solenoid from even as close as two feet is using powe levels like a broadcast station, an rf detector and a real sensative solenoid. K,. C, Biose and others did it at microwave frequencies a long time ago, but it is not really practical.
     
  15. GopherT

    AAC Fanatic!

    Nov 23, 2012
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    I don't believe in adding sarcasm marks to my comments. I believe it takes away from the sarcastic effect. I don't think there is any way or reason to think more about this project or problem. I am not nearly as creative as the people who succeeded drawing red lines with a blue pencil so I am satisfied to leave this solenoid project sit without a solution but I will be the first in line to congratulate anyone who does solve it - even though I believe it cannot be solved... ever. (unless using an RF transmitting tower as you describe above).

    cheers.
     
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