Can I use MC1413P to drive (flash) LEDs in different patterns?

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by sortedmess, Apr 25, 2008.

  1. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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    Can I use MC1413P to drive (flash) LEDs in different patterns? Tried researching chip, found the datasheet but no examples of it being used to drive LEDs in flashing patterns. Just wondering if anyone could steer me in the right direction as to programming the chip from printer port if it is possible even. Obviously I am a bit of a beginner but learn quickly.
    [​IMG]
     
  2. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    Actually, the part number is ULN2003A, which consists of seven Darlington Pairs.
    [eta] Actually, the MC1413P is ON Semiconductor's part number; but practically everyone goes by the ULN2003 number, as it's become an industry standard.

    Yes indeed, it can be used to sink current; up to 500mA from each of the Darlington pairs. It cannot be used to SOURCE current.

    Motorola has split off it's semiconductor divisions. I'm still trying to figure out what is what, but part is Freescale and part is On Semiconductor.

    Here is a direct link to On Semi's page for the ULN2003:
    http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions/product.do?id=ULN2003
    Direct link to the Datasheet:
    http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/ULN2003A-D.PDF

    This is a very handy IC for all kinds of interfacing chores.

    There is an eight Darlington Pairs version, the ULN2803.
    The ULN2x03 is for CMOS/TTL powered by 5v or less.
    The ULN2x04 is for CMOS powered by 6v or higher.
    The main difference between the two is the base current limiting resistor value.

    Here's a writeup of using a parallel port for numerous purposes:
    http://engr.nmsu.edu/~etti/fall96/computer/printer/printer.html

    Note that your built-in printer port is very sensitive, and easily damaged.
    If you really wish to experiment with printer ports, I suggest you get a parallel port add-on card and experiment with it. That way, when you blow it up you can just pull it out and throw it away, instead of having to replace your computer's motherboard.
     
  3. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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    Thank you for the quick response.

    I'd like to put together my own parallel port programmer to program this chip. I probably have enough spare parts to do so. Could you recommend a build/link/software? I know there are many...
     
  4. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    The ULN2003 is not programmable. It is not a microcontroller. It is seven Darlington transistor pairs.

    It can be driven by logic gates, microcontrollers, comparators, all kinds of things.

    These are "interface ICs" - they are the go-between from TTL and CMOS level to controlling real-world things like stepper motors, relays, lamps, large LEDs.

    I've already posted a link to one site that contains quite a bit of information on using the parallel port for interfacing to the outside world.

    Google is your friend.
    But keep my warning in mind - if you blow your built-in parallel port, you will have a very unhappy day. Get an add-on card before you actually try building anything.

    You can't break anything by reading up on it first. ;)
     
  5. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Your confidence, perhaps?

    I liked the idea of a separate printer port, since I was thinking of doing something else with it. Might have saved me an unhappy day indeed (I love my computer).

    What kind of flash patterns were you thinking of? I have several ideas I've never built for pseudeo random flash patterns for a lot of LEDs.
     
  6. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    What I meant to say is "You can't break anything while you're reading up on it, except perhaps the book itself." :)

    Yeah, aux parallel printer port cards are dirt cheap compared to zapping your motherboard. One of my local mom & pop computer stores carries them for like $6/each.

    With most everything being "plug 'n' pray" nowadays, many people don't remember that in order to connect something to the printer port, you should have the power to both the computer and the printer/accessory OFF before actually hooking them up.

    Being CMOS, those ports are really easy to zap via ESD (electrostatic discharge, for the n00bs), particularly in dry climates. Then you'd wind up having to put in an add-on card for your printer (if you still have a parallel printer), and another add-on card for your I/O control experiments, and card slots are typically pretty well filled up (well, at least MINE are). Best to avoid that whole scenario with a throw-away.
     
  7. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    Some excellent information about printer port interfaces can be found at...

    http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/

    I've also come across some excellent positive logic to negitive logic convertors using 2 transistors if the need ever surfaces. I mention it here because that was the application I was fighting at the time.
     
  8. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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    Bill, I'd like to reproduce what is seen here, with at least 4 of the patterns, I've tried contacting the author of this video, but he seems selective in answering questions on going about this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t7y_jdwR5Y

    My brother is an officer and some of my close friends are as well. I wanted to put together some nice gifts for them and learn more about circuitry in the process. I have been experimenting with 555 timers, caps, resistors and some transistors recently and have a good intro into this area.

    In doing some research I have found that people are using the 4017 chip and other 4k series from chaser lights (which I don't have at the moment) to get the result. I was wondering if there were alternate ways and if I could use one of the chips that I do have to achieve this. I have some Sanyo and Yamaha chips and some others that I will take a pic of a in a bit for on here.
     
  9. hgmjr

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    Jan 28, 2005
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    For the greatest flexibility, a microcontroller would be a good way to go.

    hgmjr
     
  10. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    I agree with hgmjr on using a microcontroller for the flexibility issue.

    The ULN2003 is seven Darlington pairs. If you really want to use an interface IC to drive a lightbar just like that one, you need a ULN280x, which is eight Darlington pairs. I put "x" on the end, because if you're going to drive blue LEDs, you really should be using more than 5v, which means that you'll probably need ULN2804's driven by either CMOS ICs at over 6v or a uC (microcontroller) at a lower voltage.

    uC's are cheap, once you get over the start-up costs. You will have to program them, which means that you will have to learn how to write computer programs in assembly language, if you don't already know how to do that. You will also need to build or buy a programming tool compatible with your uC.

    You could build this project from discrete CMOS logic ICs, but to change the patterns would mean doing some re-wiring.

    It is not very likely that you could build a project with what you have on hand to achieve your desired result. But go ahead and post them, you may surprise us. :)
     
  11. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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    I hear what you are saying SgtWookie. Here are some of the chips I have:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    Actually, I didn't mean for you to post a photograph of them - just what they are, and whether or not you had acquired datasheets for them. I blame this on myself.

    I really hadn't planned on looking up datasheets for all of your IC's. Generally, one should either come fourth with an idea for a project with some background work done, or a nearly-finished project that you're having problems with.

    The bottom two ICs - are likely memory ICs, with the -15 and -35 appendages indicating access times, or similar. Don't bother looking up datasheets for those now, as they won't likely be useful to you on this project.
     
  13. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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    I will get the datasheets for you to glance at if you wouldn't mind.
     
  14. Wendy

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    Mar 24, 2008
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    I'd have to agree with the microcontroller though, however here is another way, if you want to spend the time on it.

    Ever read up on PROMs? Programmable Read Only Memory. You could program the patterns you want in it.

    Both the microcontroller and the PROM do have reduced parts count, otherwise you're stuck creating a circuit that duplicates each of the patterns that you are interested in, just not very effective to do.

    The problem is each of these patterns are stand alone, with no progressions between them, which means programmability is a must.

    Methinks you're going to have to spend some money on this project if you really want to do it.
     
  15. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    Well, the LC3517BC-15 might be useable - it's a 2048 x8 bit static RAM that's pin compatible with a 2716 EPROM.
    The catch here is that if the power ever gets taken below 2v, the memory goes away, and it would have to be reprogrammed, which would be a pain in the neck.
    The EM78P153 is an 8-bit microprocessor with low-power and high-speed CMOS technology - but the only datasheet I could find for it was written in Chinese (I think).

    RC4558DV - Dual general purpose opamp, 741 w/no offset adjust. Not much help with this project.

    Couldn't find any datasheets at all for the first four IC's.
    SM5124A - CB Transceiver PLL (no help for this project)
    YM3030 - D/A Converter, no datasheet (no help for this project)
    MC13289ASP - no datasheet
    AE43BH4016I-35 - No datasheet, most likely RAM
    TEA1504 - GreenChip SMPS control IC, no help for this project
     
  16. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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    Thank you for looking at those datasheets.

    I found the ENGLISH datasheet for the EM78P153S (minus the PJ letters).

    http://www.datasheet4u.com/download.php?id=598999 - Will bring you to page of unformatted text, click the DATASHEET VIEW link to have it open the *.pdf.
     
  17. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    Ah, ok. Unfortunately, that IC has OTP ROM - OTP = One Time Program.
    If you pulled it out from a piece of equipment, it has already been programmed, and the only way to get any use out of it would be to put it back in that same circuit.

    If it hasn't been programmed yet, you have exactly ONE chance to get the programming right. One small mistake, and it's ready for the round file (trash can). With those kinds of microcontrollers, you will try very hard to not make mistakes - but programming in Assembler is not easy, and mistakes are bound to happen.

    You would really be better off using something like a PIC microcontroller in the 8-bit series with an "F" in it - the F means flash memory; you can easily reprogram those uC's.
     
  18. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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    Yeah, I figured it was a throw away chip. I will now remember OTP for the future.

    I am hunting for the datasheets for the 4 Yamaha chips, just because I am still curious. No luck so far. But I will tell you that they are from a Yamaha PSR-47 Keyboard which I had taken apart some time ago. So far I have not yet found sheets on these chips. I even looked up the US Patent number that was on the back of the keyboard to see if it would help, no. What I know is that the PSR-47 keyboard was made in 1989 by Yamaha along with other models in that year such as CLP-650W, CVP-30, CVP-50, CVP-70, CLP-570, CLP-670, CLW-12, CLW-14, PSS-20, PSS-280, PSS-380, PSR-27, PSR-47, PSS-580, PSS-780, PSR-37, PSR-2500, PSR-3500, PSR-4500, PSS-100, PSS-80, PSS-80R and professional models V50, SY77, TG55. I only mention the other models because I am thinking there is a chance the 4 chips in question may have been used in those as well and I could search in discussions/forums on those models as well and possibly find the sheets on the chips. I am just curious about these chips...err CPUs I think they are actually.
     
  19. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    Ahh, I see.

    With that in mind, it's not very likely that you WILL find documentation on them. It's very likely that those are ROM memory IC's with "house" markings on them, or proprietary Yamaha numbers. They may have been sampled sounds, or perhaps synthesizer instructions. In any case, it's not really likely you'll be able to do much with them except put them back in the keyboard, or another one of the same model.
     
  20. sortedmess

    Thread Starter Member

    Apr 9, 2008
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