Buying a vehicle

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
My co-worker just bought a used 2012 and paid $5k more than I did.
But since the sticker price was $7k more than he ended up paying, the salesman told him that he actually SAVED money so, after the $5 more than you paid, he is still $2k ahead of you!

Ha, ha, ha ha ha ha!
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
But since the sticker price was $7k more than he ended up paying, the salesman told him that he actually SAVED money so, after the $5 more than you paid, he is still $2k ahead of you!

Ha, ha, ha ha ha ha!

Yeah like "buy now and save"!

Never heard it explained how you can save money by spending it. ;)
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
30,714
Reminds me of:

Three friends went and had a meal in a restaurant. The total bill came to $30, including tips. So they chipped in $10 each.
When the waiter took the money to the cashier he realized that he had made a mistake and the bill should have been only $25. Hence the cashier gave him $5 in change. Being an honest employee he wanted to return the $5 to the customers, but short on math skills, couldn't figure out how to divide $5 three ways.

So he decided to tell them that the bill was actually lower than what he had originally figured and gave them back $1 each and kept $2 for himself. Problem solved, so he thought.

Later, laying in bed at night, he realize that something didn't add up. He gave each of them $1 in change. They collectively paid $9 x 3 = $27. He kept $2 for himself. That makes $29. There was originally $30 total. Where did the missing $1 go?
 
Last edited:

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
Reminds me of:

Three friends went and had a meal in a restaurant. The total bill came to $30, including tips. So they chipped in $10 each.
When the waiter took the money to the cashier he realized that he had made a mistake and the bill should have been only $25. Hence the cashier gave him $5 in change. Being an honest employee he wanted to return the $5 to the customers, but short on math skills, couldn't figure out how to divide $5 three ways.

So he decided to tell them that the bill was actually lower than what he had originally figured and gave them back $1 each and kept $2 for himself. Problem solved, so he thought.

Later, laying in bed at night, he realize that something didn't add up. He gave each of them $1 in change. They collectively paid $9 x 3 = $27. He kept $2 for himself. That makes $29. There was originally $30 total. Where did the missing $1 go?
Collectively they paid $27 to pay a $25 bill, hence the waiter pocketed the $2 difference.
 

atferrari

Joined Jan 6, 2004
4,764
As long as the three friends go back home in the ActivePower's scooter, this thread is not considered yet officialy derailed. :p :p

Point is: did he finally buy it? :)
 

atferrari

Joined Jan 6, 2004
4,764
Plenty of maintenance gets needed at unexpected moments with brand new cars, too.

While someone has to buy cars new, that person will almost certainly never be me. We have four vehicles and the current market value on all four combined, plus the trailer, is probably about $12k. Yes, we have maintenance costs (but so does a new car), but we are far, far, far money ahead compared to the cost of even a single comparable new car.
As I believe 99% of people does, I bought my first (and some) car, 2nd hand, and then, my last four, new.

No records to say how much and why I spent this or that but with two of the 2nd hand I recall going to the workshop of a "friend" for (costly) repairs, rather often. He liked my cars ("because I live from them", he explained). True. :(

In the last 23 years, my job required frequently to leave "now!" because there was an emergency (iddle vessels - and all around them - do cost big money) so no question of being in doubt of how reliable it could be. Terminals up river along 300 Km are not easy places to reach even if you know the way. For a regular home-work-home user it is different.

I suspect, only suspect, that if I divide costs in the long term, what I paid for buying them new is somewhat higher but working as kind of guarantee of reliability. Peace of mind in the middle of the night in a solitary road at many Km from nowhere is important to me.

Excuses and explanations do not supplant a job done in time.
 
Last edited:

ISB123

Joined May 21, 2014
1,236
I would never again go to friend for repairs most of the times they will use your trust to charge extra and do some damage to make sure you come back.In my case "friend"would loosen some nuts which would result in oil leaking 2-3 months later.Then I had enough of shit and went to other mechanic which fixed everything and told me that someone was loosening the nuts and some onboard "chips"which would get loose and give error on the computer,2 years after changing the mechanic and car hasn't broken once.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
29,979
As I believe 99% of people does, I bought my first (and some) car, 2nd hand, and then, my last four, new.
Do you really believe that 99% (or some really large fraction) of people buy only one car 2nd hand and then buy every car after that new? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean with the "(and some)" clause. Ask yourself if that makes any sense at all. For a given car, it can only be bought 'new' one time. If everyone bought a used car only once and then bought new from then on, that would mean that everyone only buys two cars in their entire lives and that each car gets bought just twice. Yet, according to NADA for 2012 (the first numbers I could get when Googling), there were 14.4 million new light vehicles sold in the U.S. compared to 40.5 million used light vehicles. It would be interesting to find out what fraction of people never own a new car (or, equally interesting, the average number of new car cars vs. used cars that people purchase in their lives), but I couldn't find that quickly.

I agree that if you have a job (or other situation) that demands highly reliably transportation, then owning a newer, well-maintained car is increasingly important. That doesn't necessarily equate to needing to buy a new car, though. Figure that if you have a car that you bought new three years ago, how is that different fundamentally from having just bought a three year old car yesterday? The only real difference is that you know the service history of that vehicle, but you can just as easily restrict your used vehicle purchases to cars that have well-documented service histories -- and you can expect to pay a bit more for them as a result, but not a lot since most people don't care about that feature and hence that feature doesn't command much of a price premium.

The key to a reliable vehicle isn't whether it's new or not, but how well maintained it is. I'm more than willing to stipulate that buying a car new and then maintaining it well from that point on is probably the best way to ensure reliability, but buying a decent used car, getting it well inspected and serviced right away, and then maintaining it properly from that point on isn't too far behind and will usually result in a much more reliable vehicle than buying a brand new one and then neglecting the proper maintenance.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
30,714
The other thing to consider is what we in the electronics industry call infant mortality rate. That is, a lot of components, equipment, machinery, etc., if it is going to fail, will fail within the first six months of usage. With a new vehicle, the repair is covered by the manufacturer's warranty and hence you don't notice or worry over it. A three year old vehicle is well broken in and the early failure modes have been taken care of, hopefully.

For the past 20 years, every one of our vehicles was pre-owned. We have never had a problem with reliability. I can count only two occasions in 40 years that I have bought a new vehicle, one 40 years ago and the second 20 years ago.
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
So, for those of us who are not in a position to rely solely on public and/or hired transportation, what do you suggest? Surely not leasing?

Exactly. Sorry but I don't want to live in the city. No car then my alternative is to rely on friends for transportation, sit at home or ride my bicycle everywhere.

That is no kind of life. Lots of people waste money all of the time. It is part of the joy of living. Life is way to short to worry about every dollar spent. So you can spend your whole life saving every penny and hope you don't die young or spend and hope you don't die old. The seceret is to find a balance.
 

tindel

Joined Sep 16, 2012
936
My post was partially tongue in cheek... but the OP sounds to be in a very good location with work, and all immediate needs within walking and biking distance. MMM really advocates living close to work and biking. I would really recommend that he/she rent a car when needed... Home Depot even rents cars for $19.99 for the first hour. I just rented a car for a week for under $300, and put 2000 miles on it for Thanksgiving... much cheaper than wear-n-tear on my car.

I own two cars... and do drive a lot, but it's on my list to change some of these habits. I also only live 7 miles from work and need to start biking. My wife's car gets 30 miles to gallon and my next car will be closer to 40 miles per gallon.
 

atferrari

Joined Jan 6, 2004
4,764
Do you really believe that 99% (or some really large fraction) of people buy only one car 2nd hand and then buy every car after that new? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean with the "(and some)" clause. Ask yourself if that makes any sense at all. For a given car, it can only be bought 'new' one time. If everyone bought a used car only once and then bought new from then on, that would mean that everyone only buys two cars in their entire lives and that each car gets bought just twice. Yet, according to NADA for 2012 (the first numbers I could get when Googling), there were 14.4 million new light vehicles sold in the U.S. compared to 40.5 million used light vehicles. It would be interesting to find out what fraction of people never own a new car (or, equally interesting, the average number of new car cars vs. used cars that people purchase in their lives), but I couldn't find that quickly.

I agree that if you have a job (or other situation) that demands highly reliably transportation, then owning a newer, well-maintained car is increasingly important. That doesn't necessarily equate to needing to buy a new car, though. Figure that if you have a car that you bought new three years ago, how is that different fundamentally from having just bought a three year old car yesterday? The only real difference is that you know the service history of that vehicle, but you can just as easily restrict your used vehicle purchases to cars that have well-documented service histories -- and you can expect to pay a bit more for them as a result, but not a lot since most people don't care about that feature and hence that feature doesn't command much of a price premium.

The key to a reliable vehicle isn't whether it's new or not, but how well maintained it is. I'm more than willing to stipulate that buying a car new and then maintaining it well from that point on is probably the best way to ensure reliability, but buying a decent used car, getting it well inspected and serviced right away, and then maintaining it properly from that point on isn't too far behind and will usually result in a much more reliable vehicle than buying a brand new one and then neglecting the proper maintenance.
I tried to say that 99% of people buy their first car, 2nd hand.

Buying them new, is a different statistics.

When I bought 2nd hand, whatever the previous owners have done with/to them is the best kept secret in the city. No matter how much "certified" 2nd hand those cars are when offered to me.

The 4 years old car I am driving, I know how many bad things I did to it (none) so I feel still OK with it.

Next year I could be thinking of selling it and buying a bike finally. Not sure yet.
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
My post was partially tongue in cheek... but the OP sounds to be in a very good location with work, and all immediate needs within walking and biking distance. MMM really advocates living close to work and biking. I would really recommend that he/she rent a car when needed... Home Depot even rents cars for $19.99 for the first hour. I just rented a car for a week for under $300, and put 2000 miles on it for Thanksgiving... much cheaper than wear-n-tear on my car.

I own two cars... and do drive a lot, but it's on my list to change some of these habits. I also only live 7 miles from work and need to start biking. My wife's car gets 30 miles to gallon and my next car will be closer to 40 miles per gallon.
That was my recommendation. If I lived in a city like the OP, I would not own a car. Personally I think living in a city is a mistake. Most cities are tinder boxes getting ready to blow. I still live too close to the city IMHO. I would like to live further away but it would be such a long drive into work.

I actually live near a fairly small town relatively speaking. I recently visited Toronto and could not get over the size and density of the population. I actually felt very uncomfortable, thinking if the crap decided to hit the fan while I was there, where would I go? No way would I want to live like that day after day.
 

Brian Griffin

Joined May 17, 2013
64
Cars depreciate really fast after a purchase. Since I'm saving for a PhD work, I don't think I'd afford a newest kind of car on the town. Any reasonable 2nd hand car will do. It's not like I'm going to show my car to everyone. Even if it's the latest Ferrari, no one will be impressed.

To be honest, one impress the others by what he/she do. Not by owning an expensive car which would be a beaten up, sputtering car much later. :)
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
To be honest, one impress the others by what he/she do. Not by owning an expensive car which would be a beaten up, sputtering car much later. :)
Sadly not true in today's world for most people at least. I think most of the forum members here would be impressed more by a person's mind rather than what they own or what they can do on a sports field but we are in the minority. ;)
 
Top