Breaking the rules

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by DonQ, Nov 11, 2010.

  1. DonQ

    Thread Starter Active Member

    May 6, 2009
    320
    11
    Here's a project that I worked on for a little bit. I wanted to design a circuit that blinks a row of 20 or so LED's (third brake light for a car).

    We do not allow changes to the lighting. Closed.

    Really? Adding a third brake light (like many newer cars have) with no changes to the existing lighting is against forum policy? How about trailer light connections? Changing bulbs? Replacing a broken brake switch? Polishing the lens?

    6 degrees of separation ... ... ... ... ... BRAKE LIGHT!

    Too many possibilities... too complicated... I think I may have already broke the rules. Only one way to be sure...
     
  2. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 2, 2009
    8,750
    760
    Thread closed.... go buy a third one and stick it onto year trunk :D.

    Seriously ..It would be quite easy...But u do know u have to tap into the harness.
     
  3. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
    5,939
    1,222
  4. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
    5,685
    900
    Presumably that is US law. We don't know DonQ's location with certainty.

    Ironically, just two days ago I was behind a new vehicle that had the third brake light flash like being suggested here. I wonder if it is a new fad?

    A flashing brake light does get attention, but may mean that the car is just slowing down, not hard braking. Ignoring that distinction could present a problem.

    John
     
  5. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
    5,939
    1,222
    If DonQ live in USA he can take a look here http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/fmvss/index.html section 108. In Europa all such equipment must have a CE marking. Hence all car lightning hobbyist projects are out of the question. I think the japanese rules are quite harmonized with the rules in Europa.
     
  6. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
    5,201
    312
  7. Markd77

    Senior Member

    Sep 7, 2009
    2,803
    594
    And the disclamer at the bottom of their page:
     
  8. beenthere

    Retired Moderator

    Apr 20, 2004
    15,815
    282
    And that is why we don't want to mess with any number of automotive subjects.
     
  9. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
    5,201
    312
    Thats right.

    Go buy the part and deal with the consequences.

    We dont need to help someone re-invent a wheel that may or may not be illegal.

    If a bus full of nuns rear-ends you because the driver is epileptic and goes into a seizure from a breaklight that we helped you design, then our little home on the internet becomes no more.


    You can go buy it and deal with it.
     
  10. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
    9,411
    896
    The kids in Canada who modified the rear lighting on their cars got rear-ended and caused a lot of accidents. Now the cops simply compound their cars when they see modified lighting.
    Watch out for epilleptic nuns behind you. One might thing your flashing is a machine gun and give you a blast.
     
  11. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
    6,357
    718
    The problem the forum needs to worry about are the hundreds of thousands of people who simply read the information, or find it through google.

    They may have no experience with electronics or electricity, but see a project, then figure they can change the lights to blue or some other "look at me" effect, or go so far as to make their own light bar to play cop.

    Sure, most of us active members know the local rules, and what not to do, but from personal experience, a large chunk of the population doesn't care or lacks in common sense.

    It isn't a matter of right and wrong, but more of a matter of "Who will pay for the lawyer if somebody sues, even if the forum itself didn't authorize or promote the idea?"

    A good number of forums have been financially destroyed simply by fighting a lawsuit "on principle".
     
  12. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 2, 2009
    8,750
    760
    No kiddin...Is that even possible :D.

    Man ...U guys will be surprised to know tht no body can be sued here. Yet.
     
  13. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
    5,201
    312
    I moving to the Maldives....

    RIFAA: Get a couch ready. ;)
     
  14. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,765
    2,536
    I've protested as the restrictions this board is slowly increasing, but I do understand and accept the logic. The internet is vast, there are many other places you can pursue your specific interests. That is ultimately what it boils down to.

    We can discuss issues (which is more than fair), but we are not the arbiters of what is not allowed. Since we can not control what the 11 year old is going to do with what he reads here (or 21 year old idiots) we have to allow for it.

    Personally I would like to keep this site college level. There are definite issues I disagree with, mainly because they will be done commercially whether individuals do them or not (such as LED lighting off of the mains). It would bother me a lot to see this section removed from the AAC book specifically because it is already being done, and will actually increase in use as LEDs evolve. This means it needs to be referenced, but not encouraged on the hobbyist level. Any hobbyist who is competent can already do it safely. I could, for example, but it is not a project for a beginner, or even intermediate user.

    I would still like to see a firm list of don'ts posted in the rules as has been discussed to death, as opposed to stickies. A lot of skull sweat has already been expended on the topic.
     
  15. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 2, 2009
    8,750
    760
    I agree with Bill.
     
  16. jpanhalt

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 18, 2008
    5,685
    900
    I am really on the fence about the rules and agree with Bill Marsden that in some areas, they seem a bit overboard.

    One thing I am not on the fence about is the justification for them. Have there been any successful lawsuits against forums for what essentially is exercise of free speech? And yes, I know that it is not losing so much as the expense of defense.

    One point to consider is where the lawsuit would be heard. Do we know that answer? If it is any place that does not follow the American Rule, then it could be very expensive for the losing plaintiff, as well.

    I searched on lawsuits against forums. Lots of hits, but none were relevant, except this one: http://www.webmasterworld.com/community_building/3450185.htm

    It makes interesting reading. I was particularly drawn to the comments related to premium subscribers and the adverse effects that legal intimidation can have on the person making such threats.

    Rather than being curbside attorneys, which is kind of fun but not productive, I think the forum administrators need to get expert advice on the matter and proceed reasonably. I don't expect the forum leaders to tell us exactly what counsel advises. However, it would be nice if there were some concrete statements regarding risks to the forum and to the individual members who contribute. The latter may actually be the greater risk.

    John


    .
     
  17. t06afre

    AAC Fanatic!

    May 11, 2009
    5,939
    1,222
    So every AAC member are welcome to crash at RIFAAs place cool. I bring a trailer load of beer, and the chips. No I am not talking about RAM chips, but poker chips. And if the plants in RIFAAs garden suddenly choose to die. It is your fault RIFAA. Not Retched or my fault. I mean how could you place the TV so near the the garden, and so far from the bathroom
    Also Retched if you can invite some of local girls. I can teach you all how to "Do The Hustle"
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2010
  18. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
    9,411
    896
    I did The Hustle in 1978 and still do it. I couldn't remember what it was (because I do it automatically now) until I looked at Saturday Night Fever and Sayin' Alive in Google. Those were The Good Old Days when I met my wife then we hustled all over the place.
     
  19. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
    6,357
    718
    I can agree here. A site wide disclaimer that states "follow safety precautions, check with local laws, yada yada yada" <translate to lawyerspeak>

    That would cover the forum for any "Harmful Information" lawsuits. There are just a lot of people out there who believe they can get rich quick by suing somebody, and there are lot of lawyers who reinforce that concept. This results in a ton of "tort" cases that shouldn't even see the light of day, IMHO.
     
  20. windoze killa

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 23, 2006
    605
    24
    I think blanket bans on particular topics needs to be reviewed. For example, rail guns (or coil guns for people trying to skirt the system) should be banned. If you want to do it then sit down and do it BUT don't ask for help. There are ways to find the info even on this forum but I won't say how.

    Modifying a cars ECU to give heaps of power should be banned but adding a LEGAL tail light should be allowed. When the mods say "But thats illegal in blah blah country" so what. If you look hard enough everything is probably illegal is some country so we better not discuss anything.

    Wiring circuits directly to mains is banned because some NOOB might kill himself. Maybe but haven't you heard of the Darwin awards???? Also if you want to take it to the extreme that same NOOB is wiring the mains side of a transformer to mains...... better ban transformers to. He might try wiring it will it is plugged in.

    If someone is going to die or get hurt by something they read on here then it was probably going to happen sooner or later anyway.

    I agree with the idea of getting legal advice and posting a "you are an idiot" dsclaimer. Also the suggestion that there are other forums out there maybe true but none with the knowledge of this one.

    PS. While I am at it I would like some help with a project. I want to build a mains powered rail gun for modifying tail lights. When the tail lights explode I would like the surge of current to modify the ECU to produce 200MPG and 500HP. :D
     
Loading...