Bouncing AA Alkaline Batteries

Discussion in 'General Science' started by MikeML, Nov 22, 2014.

  1. MikeML

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  2. BR-549

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    At first glance it seems so, doesn't it.
    I am very skeptical.

    In the first demo to confirm the bounce.......they were dropped on a loose metal plate.

    In the second they were cradled in a wooden block. This invalidates the comparison.

    Gas test...ok.

    Buckshot test.....need to weight batteries.

    Conclusion is not proven.

    Another difference between the batteries is the electric and magnetic field strength.
    I would suggest test on non conductive apparatus.

    Also....find 2 similar weighted neutral objects.....one with good bounce and one without.

    Always bounce neutrals with batteries to confirm a mechanical process.

    Then I might consider.

    I had never heard of this phenomena. Thank you.
     
  3. studiot

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    Fascinating, many thanks Mike.
     
  4. profbuxton

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    Feb 21, 2014
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    Interesting, must try this for myself.
    I don't see how electric and magnetic fields come into this at all!
     
  5. BR-549

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    profbuxton......let's say you work for a ping pong ball manufacturing co. You and your crew has just spent the last 30 days and a lot of overtime installing a new ping pong maker along side the old one. It's Fri. afternoon and you are looking forward to your first weekend off. 30 min before quitting time the boss comes to you with 2 buckets of ping pong balls from the new machine. One bucket white balls, the other red. He tells you that the red balls are only bouncing half as high as the white ones. He also tells you that on Mon. morning he will ask you why. What are you gonna do?

    Now these balls have the same weight, pressure, materials and dimensions. Yet they act in a different way.

    That means that there has to be some kind of DIFFERENCE in the balls. Now the most obvious difference between them is the color.

    It does not matter if I think the color could cause this effect, color is the difference and must be checked.
    What if the difference was odor? Odor shouldn't matter either....but if that was the only obvious difference it would have to be the FIRST thing checked.

    You must check and eliminate the obvious First. Then consider and look for the non obvious.

    The ONLY obvious difference between the batteries is charge strength. This cause must be eliminated first. After that, then you search for the non obvious, like the video.

    The video concludes the "spongy effect". To confirm this we need to weight the batteries.

    Also....will a freshly discharged battery work the same? In other words....is there a discharge state TIME required for this effect? (drying time)

    Also.......does the bounce go away when battery is charged back up? Does the weight change?

    Is spongyness a property of the charge, dis-charge cycle?

    It is a curious effect.
     
  6. BR-549

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    Sep 22, 2013
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    Earlier today I found 6 AA, 12 AAA and 3 9 volt alkaline batteries of questionable origin in one of my junk drawers.

    I retrieved my Can Tech Multimeter @ $3.29 Harbor Freight. Then I thought, drop test first.

    All the single cell batteries followed the drop test. By dropping about 1/2 to 1", it was easy to determine full charge, half charge and dead. On hard oak desk.
    The most notable difference is weight. I didn't get my scales out, because the difference was quite noticeable just by picking them up. No drop needed.

    However........the 2 dead 9 volt batteries were heavier then the good one.

    So, for me the drop test worked. And if you have full charge and discharged to compare........just the weight in your hand will suffice.
     
  7. jpanhalt

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    You don't really say whether the dead cylindrical batteries were heavier or lighter than the charged versions, but from you sentence about 9V batteries, I will infer the dead cylindrical batteries were lighter.

    Based on the well-known chemistry, why do you suppose that would be? I think you should weigh them to eliminate observer bias..

    John
     
  8. BR-549

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    Your absolutely right. The dead batteries are lighter.
    And you are right about my hand bias.
    But the difference was so great, in my opinion, I could self ignore the bias.
    And I didn't want to weigh all those batteries.

    Without a chemical analysis.....I couldn't say for sure.
    I would suspect a moisture loss.
    I would suspect a change in elasticity of the innards.
     
  9. jpanhalt

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    But, if the cells were vented sufficiently* to allow moisture loss, the KOH would absorb CO2 and gain weight. I did not see any definitive statement as to whether the cells are vented. There is a drawing that shows an expansion chamber. Such expansion apparently occurs as the cells discharge.

    John

    *It is quite possible to vent something and not allow appreciable moisture loss. A tiny capillary does that and is/was used in analytical chemistry to vent air without allowing significant loss of a substance.
     
  10. BR-549

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    I guess I was wrong.......it's H2.

    From Wikipedia,

    All batteries gradually self-discharge (whether installed in a device or not) and dead batteries will eventually leak. Extremely high temperatures can also cause batteries to rupture and leak (such as in a car during summer).

    The reason for leaks is that as batteries discharge — either through usage or gradual self-discharge — the chemistry of the cells changes and some hydrogen gas is generated. This out-gassing increases pressure in the battery. Eventually, the excess pressure either ruptures the insulating seals at the end of the battery, or the outer metal canister, or both. In addition, as the battery ages, its steel outer canister may gradually corrode or rust, which can further contribute to containment failure.

    Once a leak has formed due to corrosion of the outer steel shell, potassium hydroxide absorbs carbon dioxide from the air to form a feathery crystalline structure of potassium carbonate that grows and spreads out from the battery over time, following along metal electrodes to circuit boards where it commences oxidation of copper tracks and other components, leading to permanent circuitry damage.

    The leaking crystalline growths can also emerge from seams around battery covers to form a furry coating outside the device, that corrodes any objects in contact with the leaking device.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have checked closely all the batteries. One AA had a manufactured vent hole.

    However after magnifying......on one end or the other........on the dead ones.......I found a small wrinkle, where you can see something has escaped.

    I had no idea about these batteries.........it's quite surprising.
     
  11. jpanhalt

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    OK, 2 electrons are produced per mole,roughly, and the batteries are roughly 2.8 Ah. Well, an amp is a 6.2X10^18 electrons/sec, as I recall. A mole is 6X10^23 atoms or molecules. The weight change from hydrogen loss would be very slight. Please weight them.

    John
     
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  12. BR-549

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    Very well......let me get the scales out and give me some time. The house is busy tonight.
    I'll get a list together.
     
  13. BR-549

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    Howdy....My scales were loaned out.....should be back this evening.
    My Can-Tech meter started picking up alien signals....so I will replace that also.

    I am leery about the capacitance figure. But we will use it.
    So, that would be over 2 moles -e per sec.
    120 moles per min.
    14400 moles in two hours.

    Is that correct?
     
  14. BR-549

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    Gentlemen, I must apologize, I have lost my test batteries.
    I was babysitting this weekend while the women were shopping.
    Evidently, the crumb crunchers found my stash and appropriated them.
    I guess batteries are like candy was to us. Everything needs batteries.
    Again I apologize.
     
  15. wayneh

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    They won't be happy with the bouncing ones ! :p
     
  16. BR-549

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  17. MrChips

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    Oct 2, 2009
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    Romeo Club, I like that.
    Retired old men eating out.

    I'm not quite retired yet, though old.
     
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