Black Hole Singularity Specifics

Discussion in 'Physics' started by SplitInfinity, May 3, 2013.

  1. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    I am looking at some pics that were given to me by a friend who owns Blackbird Avionics or at least that was the company name last time we saw each other at BWI as it was impossible to get into Reagan...I think he might have gone public.

    Anyways...he gave me some fantastic pics of NGC 4261 which at 100 Million Light Years distant is a Supermassive Black Hole larger than our solar system with an accretion disc 800 Light Years across.

    NGC 4261 weighs in at 1.2 Billion solar masses and I had read about it before and a created representative picture was shown in the book so I had never actually seen it.

    My friend has some connects at JPL as well as down in FL and Texas so as he remembered in one of our conversations about Black Holes and this particular one...he was able to get me some actual pics from Hubble that were available but not something so pretty that they would be included in a book for sale.

    This was given to me probably before it was on the net...and I have never checked since getting the pic from him if it even is...I guess I should check! LOL!

    Anyways...I think I might have posted about this particular Black Hole before but what I want to discuss now is even though we can determine NGC 4261's mass and Gravitic Effect at 1.2 Billion Solar Masses...since this Black Hole has created an actual SINGULARITY...what and where exactly is the state of reality of this mass?

    Now since Singularity or One Dimensionality will not allow the existance of Matter or Energy or the Particles or Frequency of...I believe that this collapsed amount of mass swallowed by the singularity...and this is not refering to the great amount of mass and energy surrounding the singularity which is known as an accretion disc...has been converted to an unknown state of existance for a micro-moment and then ejected into another Universal Reality that it itself is creating.

    I believe that at the moment of Gravitic Compression to a Unknown State then ejected...it's one time mass quatity is no longer a factor or specific to equalitative mass or energy being ejected from a WHITE HOLE or BIG BANG in this now being created Universal Reality.

    Split Infinity
     
  2. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    When I first though about the concepts of Black Hole/White Hole realities I was thinking along the lines of...What get's swallowed up by the Black Hole....is ejected by the White Hole equally. Or the amount of mass and energy in equals the same amount of mass and energy out.

    Now I think about this very differently.

    There is no real definitive reason or logic to prove or force me to think that what mass and energy swallowed by a Black Holes Singularity would be ejected out of a White Hole in the same form, construction, quantity or proportion as what was sucked into the Black Hole.

    My reasoning is that once Matter of Mass and Energy as well as Quanta such as Photons and the like is effected to the point and at the mercy...actually no mercy...of a state of Singularity...Geometry and Mass as well as charge and frequency can all be thrown out the window.

    I think it maybe possible that new created Universal States not related to our Base Timeline and not Divergent within our Universal Grouping within a Multiversal System...maynot have Particle/Mass constraints in that ONE SINGLE ATOM from our Universal State swallowed by a Black Hole may have the potential to equal the Mass of an ENTIRE SOLAR SYSTEM or perhaps even greater within a newly created Universal State by the BIG BANG ejecta of a White Hole.

    The single atom once swallowed by singularity can no longer exist as any groupings of particles of mass or energy as singularity is One Dimensionality...BUT...once swallowed...such an Atom may take on a associatative value specific to the creation of a new Universal State.

    So...anyone care to comment on my thoughts?

    Split Infinity
     
  3. hexreader

    Active Member

    Apr 16, 2011
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    I was suckered into responding to one of your challenges once before. But I have learnt....

    The advice from the moderators was "Do not feed the trolls".

    Excellent advice. This time I will heed it.
     
    shortbus and Papabravo like this.
  4. joeyd999

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jun 6, 2011
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    Split,

    Perhaps if you didn't try to impress us with all your 25 cent words and run-on sentences, and wrote in normal English using words that have definitive (and universally understood) meanings, we could probably have a more useful and interesting conversation.

    The only reason I am replying here is that I have an interest in the subject matter that you are trying to communicate, but your language simply frustrates me.
     
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  5. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    You assume too much.

    There are many great questions and thoughts that all and any here could contribute to such a topic.

    If you don't believe so...then why post or reply?

    Oh...I forgot!

    You wanted to make it CLEAR to everyone on this forum to...Not Feed the Trolls!

    And you desired to follow their advice by spelling it out again and amking SURE we all know that you WILL HEED such advice! LOL!

    Remind me never to tell you not to stick a pair of tweesers in an electrical receptical. I would hate to be responsible for your SHOCK that would soon ensue once you told all not to do....(Visulalise this person sticking the tweesers in)...THIS! LOL!

    Well at least you made me get a smile!

    Split Infinity
     
  6. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    Not trying to impress anyone there Joey. This is just the way I type.

    Split Infinity...badly and with poor spelling.
     
  7. hexreader

    Active Member

    Apr 16, 2011
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    You understand perfectly. Cannot face the thought of another ultra-long and fruitless thread like the last one.
     
  8. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
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    Only ONE BLACK HOLE in this thread.
     
  9. nsaspook

    AAC Fanatic!

    Aug 27, 2009
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    joeyd999 likes this.
  10. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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  11. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    Awww! It's sooo sad!

    Da WIDDLE ITSY BITSY BUS THAT COULD...is sad.

    Dis Bus wouwd waddder wail wabout why da Buses dosn't wike wsomone dan...ACTUALLY consider the topics question and then in an adult manner reply either favorably or negatively and in doing so provide some data or concepts of the WIDDLE BUSSES OWN ideas that would be a benefit to the members, visitors and perhaps even a visiting person of intelligence and import that might become a key to the overall beneficial developments of Mankind.

    Fortunately for da Widdle Bus...the author of this topic believes that the Bus have the capability to overcome such issues and realize that if two people have an issue it is possible to easily settle such issues by TALKING DIRECTLY to the person that this Bus has an issue with perhaps in a PM.

    I happen to know this topics author is very open minded and even though he might have been a bit overzealous adding W's when referring to this BUS he did so in an attempt to gain the Buses attention and demonstrate HOW UTTERLY STUPID AND REDICULOUS for ANY PERSON OR MEMBER...and this includes THIS POST...to waste moments of our short Human Lives attempting to get back at someone or continually make snide and rude comments that are NOT BASED UPON HUMOR but rather come from some deep seated need to act in such a manner.

    Bus...despite what has been said in the past...I really have nothing against you nor do I spend a single Nano-Second of my life after I get off this forum thinking or planning or even considering what I might do to a person who has attempted by whatever reason...to get under my skin.

    What I DO THINK ABOUT and enjoy to a great extent...is when a member replies to one of my posts in a manner that either beneficially adds to my and others knowledge base, creates a post that presents evidence, logic or even analogy questions that would debunk what I might post and what I REALLY ENJOY is when a member uses their intelligence and HUMOR to BUST MY CHOPS...showing me either how SMART OR STUPID my idea, post or reply really is and smartly and with verve, style, wit and a warped sense of HUMOR does so and makes me smile and laugh at myself.

    Just ONCE I would just LOVE to see you take THAT ROUTE when replying to something I have posted rather than what I and many others seem to be getting unfortunately SLAMMED OVER THE HEAD WITH.

    My hand is extended here for you to either slap away, shake or shake while using a JOY BUZZER attached and hidden within your finger and palm.

    Even if you used the buzzer...my opinion of you...and I think of many others beside myself here...would soar.

    Listen...ANYONE can have the ability to do the negative thing. It takes a special kind of person, smart, evolved, thinking, open and having a direction in life that is based upon Heart and Mind and a balance between the two rather than a direction that will be changing that is based upon whatever perceived slight and a quickly building desire to strike back.

    I HOPE you are the first person mentioned in the above paragraph. Let's just drop all the perceived slights of the past and concentrate upon enjoying our lives and passions and in my case part of my enjoyment in life is talking about topics as these and talking and LISTENING to others concepts, ideas and passions.

    What is YOUR true passion Bus?

    Split Infinity
     
  12. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    The only time a topic becomes FRUITLESS is when a member decides to reply to that topic in a FRUITLESS MANNER. When a topic is presented and replies to it are of a negative nature without explanation and by that I mean...topic is presented...a concept or idea presented...a member decides to reply but in their reply they neither talk about why the topics concept or idea cannot be so or present ideas or data supporting the topic...or even present ideas and concepts of their own....RATHER...the member uses this as an opportunity to detail how they hated an action, concept, idea or interaction that occurred in the PAST between themselves and either the topics author or even another replying member to the topic.

    This member cannot come to terms within themselves a conflict of SCALAR based emotional perception of a SLIGHT. They feel that they have been wronged and being that they cannot let this go...it begins to consume them and in doing so...WASTES EVERYONE ELSE'S TIME...that might have some connection or interaction with this member or any connection between the two parties that member feels have an issue.

    I am here right now extending my hand in an offer of friendship or if this cannot be brought to terms right now...at the very least an offer of mutual respect.

    The next step is up to you.

    In the mean time...I will continue considering this topic and doing my very best to help both others and myself expand out ideas and knowledge base.

    Split Infinity
     
  13. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    I had this thought. When a Black Hole swallows matter into a created state of Singularity...what exactly is going on as far as the Space/Time that exists between an Atoms Nucleus and it's Electron Orbits?

    As well as since Quantum Chromodynamics dictates that to try separate or remove a Quark from another within a Proton or Neutron...and due to the Gluon...which carry "Color"...a form of strong charge...any amount of energy or force applied to separate or remove a Quark/Gluon will cause the bonded connection of a Quark/Gluon with the other Quarks within a Proton or Neutron to increase directly proportional to the applied energy or force.

    Thus the more energy used to separate the Quark...the greater the required energy or force needed to separate it.

    So...when an Atom falls into a Black Holes Singularity...and is ripped apart...what exactly is failing in Chromodynamics to allow the Quarks and Gluons to be pulled apart?

    And since there is no 3-D distance or time in a Black Holes Singularity...what is becoming of the Electron Orbital Fields and distance from the Nucleus?

    Split Infinity
     
  14. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    One of the variables that change in a black hole is distance, a black hole is larger on the inside than on the outside, like a TARDIS. Maybe infinite in size (or close enough)?
     
  15. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    Bill...just so I understand exactly what you are saying...A Black Hole supposedly is a created state of Singularity due to a great enough quantity of mass collected by gravity at a general position in Space/Time that brakes a threshold state by which any amount of mass not undergoing Thermonuclear Fusion below this threshold will not create a singularity and any amount above...will create a singularity.

    This is shown as when a Supermassive Red Giant Star that has fused the vast majority of it's Hydrogen into Helium and because of this almost all Thermonuclear Reactions cease.

    When this happens there is not enough outward explosive force due to such fusion to maintain the given swollen area or volume of such a star and this Supermassive Red Giant begins to collapse due to gravity.

    Now a Singularity is a Universal Geometric State of One Dimensionality. In such a state...Distance and Time cannot and do not exist.

    So are you referring to the WHITE HOLE state that supposedly is the exit state of all Matter and Energy swallowed in a Black Hole?

    Or are you saying that there is an...IN BETWEEN STATE OF REALITY...that exists between the Event Horizon of a Black Hole and Ejecta Horizon from which such Matter and Energy would be released into or released and create a new Universal Reality?

    Kind of like...you are swallowed by a Black Hole and find yourself in a Tardis State...before being ejected in Big Bang style out of a White Hole?

    Thanks for taking an interest.

    Split Infinity
     
  16. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Nope, I said what I meant. Warped space shows up as a physical change in distance (semantics is a killer here). Compared to a straight path you travel you actually have more length. Inside a singularity, before the point, space just stretches thinner and thinner, longer and longer. Thing is, most of the concepts we take for granted don't really apply well, you can not talk about this as if it were normal space. But you fall a much longer distance than you would as it would be measured from the outside. It may indeed be a bottomless pit, where (like the speed of light) you can forever get closer but never quite reach it.

    I have read more than one scifi story where it is a universe unto itself, much like ours. The white hole is on the "inside".
     
  17. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    OK...Gotcha.

    So you are stating that the Tardis is representing the vastly elongated and stretched tube that get's more narrow the closer to the point of Singularity...Correct?

    Split Infinity
     
  18. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Nope, but there is a analogy there. It is indeed possible to be bigger on the inside than on the outside according to modern physics. How you would accomplish this is anyone's guess.

    All of this is speculative, of course. Both language and math break down, we can guess, but I doubt we'll ever truly know anything.
     
  19. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    Well...the only possible way I can see for some Dr. Whoian type of Tardis...small on outside...very roomy on the inside...to exist...never mind be accessible by people to enter in our Space/Time Universal Geometry and once inside...have a greater area available than the Tardis displaces in our Universal Reality...is that a persons body or Matter and Energy would be entering another Universal Reality that is and can be interconnective and interactive with our own but exists on a completely different Quantum Scale than our own.

    I talked about this on another post in a Physics forum topic I believe. The Universal Reality that exists within the Tardis would most likely be One Universal Reality from an Infinite Number of Universes but NOT FROM OUR UNIVERSAL GROUP.

    In a Multiversal System all Universal Realities that are Divergent Universal States of a single Baseline Reality...of which our is one....are part of the same Universal Grouping. Now since there are not only Infinite Divergent Universal States in our own group...there are also Infinite Universal Groups.

    It is possible that one Universal Group could be compatable and interconnective with the Universal Realities from within our group. Then it could be possible to construct a Tardis that exists on such a Interconnective Point or Bleedover Point.

    The scale of Quantum Particle/Wave Forms would be smaller from our Universal State and of a Larger Scale from the Universal Reality that exists in another Universal Group not part of our own. Thus such a Tardis would exist and be constructed of Matter and thus Quanta existing and from our Universal grouping and our Universal Reality....and since our Universal Space/Time Geometry of the INSIDE of this Tardis is that of the Universe where Space/Time Geometry and Particle/Wave Forms are of a Larger Scale...what for us in our Universal Space/Time Geometry would only be a 10 by 10 by 10 foot box with 1000 cubic feet of space...the interior of this using a Larger Scale Universal geometric constant could be say 5 to 1...thus an interior volume of 50,000 cubic feet.

    Split Infinity
     
  20. SplitInfinity

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 3, 2013
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    The Big Question I have of late as far as this topic is concerned is....The Matter that has been swallowed by the Black Holes Singularity...is it still in our Universal Reality or Not?

    I think...NOT. Now it is true due to Time Dilation that any Matter or Energy that is being swallowed or circling the Accretion Disc...being so close to a state of Singularity is in a Time Passage State to end all Time Passage States.

    Now the time that a person...if alive in a ship trapped in the accretion disc...would appear to be passing just like it always has...but for minutes trapped on the edge of the Singularity will equal...CENTURIES if not EONS for observers say in a space craft or on a Planet near by.

    Now I believe that since a state of singularity will not allow Matter and Energy to exist in an Atomic State because there would not exist enough Space/Time Geometric Dimensionality for them to exist...I do believe that Quanta...that exists in a Quasi-Virtual State maybe capable of existing or perhaps all Matter and Atomic Particles of might be broken down into Wave Form Quantum Particles...and then ejected from a White Hole in another Universal Reality.

    But this issue I wonder about is when the Matter and Energy is swallowed...and if so transported and ejected from the While Hole...is the Black Hole in a SELF SUSTAINING STATE OF SINGULARITY?

    As I detailed out in my previous post...this would seem the case but if that is so...what exactly is going on to keep it as a self sustaining singularity?

    Is it possible that the Universal Space/Time Dimensionality of this possible New Universe that could be being created at the other end...White Hole Ejecta...existing in an entirely different scale?

    As well...can it be possible that what in our Universal Scale would be a small amount of Matter and Energy swallowed be enough on a completely different scale to equal the Matter and Energy required to create a Universe such as ours?

    And what are the possibilities that the Matter broken down into Quanta and going through such a process either by a scaler concept or by Quantum Interconnectivity and Quantum Cascading...be the mechanism for such a creation?

    Anyone have the ability to ponder and respond?

    Split Infinity
     
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