Beginner warning!!! - GND and power???

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by ddsdavey, Nov 6, 2010.

  1. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Ok ive got to grips with the very basics but one thing that prevents me turning to practice is gnd and VCC (power).Ok so i read and read and all i see is that with Veroboard you simply designate a rail top and bottom of your board to accommadate them individually,is that it? I just connect anything needing gnd to this rail? Do the different gnd/power points within tthese rails have to be seperate from each other? Is it 1 point for 1 gnd or can a few components attach to the same point within the rail?
    Also,ive been looking at photos of builds compared to there schematics and the majority do not seem to have devoted power and gnd rails as suggested and (seem?) to simply have points within the populated board but AGAIN i cannot find out anywhere why this can happen? Can anywhere become such a point? Im assuming theres some way of doing it where space can be saved etc save using a whole new rail?
    Like my thread states "beginner warning" so please if someone could lower themselves to my level for a second id be really greatful.Also ive seen a tut where someone stated Veropins were necessry for gnd/power rails but i dont get why? I know it makes work easier but dude never used said pin,he constructed whatever pic schematic it was but then seemed to have these irrelevant pins sticking out the corners?
     
  2. mik3

    Senior Member

    Feb 4, 2008
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    As a beginner assume you can use any point on the positive rail and any point on the negative rail (or ground) to power your circuits.
     
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  3. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Do i need to do anything to the rails or simply designate one to each need? So theres other ways to cut down on area? As mentioned i look at other peoples finished products and for the life of me i cannot work out how they are grounding/VCC as theres no outer rails being used yet the schematic clearly shows lots of gnd points etc?
    Is that strictly 1 gnd per point and do i have to seperate every point from the next like with the circuit in general?
     
  4. mik3

    Senior Member

    Feb 4, 2008
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    Can you explain better?
     
  5. retched

    AAC Fanatic!

    Dec 5, 2009
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    GND is a common point.

    VCC is a common point.

    So you can wire ALL GNDs together if you want

    You can wire all VCC together as long as they are the same voltage.

    Other data pins are not common, they need their own termination to a proper point.
     
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  6. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Thabnks Retched,thats great.sorry for confusing people!
    So my only other query is where do people put them if not on designated rails? can i just use any area as long as its completely detached from its surroundings? I ask as being a beginner i can understand schematics (ish!) now but then when i compare the scheme to the authors finished hardware ts always very economical and compact with no extra rails for power or GND? Im trying to make this as small as possible being a plug in USB peripherall
     
  7. mik3

    Senior Member

    Feb 4, 2008
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    Power tracks exist on a PCB but their shape/location is not as you imagine (one up and one down) due to practical reasons. Placing the power tracks on a PCB (or generally) can be quite tricky due to parasitic capacitance and inductance which can cause complete failure of a circuit, especially in high speed high current circuits.
     
  8. Rbeckett

    Member

    Sep 3, 2010
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    DDS, there is a very good demo of breadboarding on You Tube, as a matter of fact I think there are several that wil help you figure out the common power and ground rails and there uses. If you will search Breadboarding on you tube you will get a ton of info. Hope this helps.
    Bob
     
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  9. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Just when i thought i was getting it i have absolutely no idea now and even more confused.Is there no one that can just answer my last question or is it no that clear cut.Im using generic Veroboard.Im just doing a very basic Pic nproject to get to grips,a totally USB powered device so not high power.
    From everything ive read it gave me the impression that it was as simple as designating 1 track top and bottom of the board.Its been that hard trying to find basic clarification of this 1 thing that i assumed it not THAT crucial as nobody even mentions it in ANY detail even in the most childlike tuts that even i understand!?
    So please dont be offended,i really appreciate you guys but i have spent DAYS reading and just want to get practical,thats when i start to really pick things up whether thats right or wrong it seems to work for me!So to be so close that ive now started soldering components (IC socket etc) and to then be told go away and read,watch videos etc,etc. is just frustrating for 1 step,an important step im sure.
    If someone could just humour my ignorance just so i can at least get this 1 project going then im sure my questions will lessen.
    So ok,GND then.That can definitely just be the outer track,can it also be anywhere else on the board such as an unused bit of space? Can that space be sectioned off and used for the same purpose.
    And whether any of those rules can also apply to the power rail.
    Remember,its only USB powered stuff,no power station!
     
  10. mik3

    Senior Member

    Feb 4, 2008
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    As a start, define two points on the board where the power wires from the USB will be connected. At the positive supply point, connect all your components positive supply pins and at the ground point connect all the components ground pins. You can use any tracks on the board as ground as long as they are connected together. The same is true for the positive supply too.

    All these are to get you start making circuits. As you practise and read more, you will find out how to design the power tracks for a better circuit performance.
     
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  11. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    What boards have you been looking at?

    Most all Computer type boards, such as Motherboards, PCI cards, etc. As well as many boards in consumer products use 4 or more layers in their composition. One is power, one is ground. Then vias are added during the build of the board to connect the needed areas to power or ground. The outer layers are used for components, some signals (purpose of circuit) and power stabilization.

    Most boards etched by hobbyists do not have a ground plane, ground/negative is simply a trace that wanders around to where it needs to be. Same thing for the V+ line(s).
     
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  12. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Hi guys,ive done the majority of it as i see things,please dont laugh if im completely wrong,all wiring is red,im hoping you can see the front and back ok.
    The bottom post is the schematic obviously! If its possible to see then please tell me where ive screwed up! I took top rail for vcc and bottom for ground. Ive ordered a track cutter off Ebay so obviously ive still got that to sort.
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    Last edited: Nov 8, 2010
  13. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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