Band Width on Electric Energy Quotes

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by EZBUZZSAW, Mar 9, 2013.

  1. EZBUZZSAW

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 9, 2013
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    0
    Hello All,
    I am new here but had a question for all of you;

    Have any of you heard of Band Width as it relates to Electrical service being quoted/provided to commercial users? I understand Band Width as it relates to IT and Radio Freq. but I am not able to see how it would relate to an eletrical provider.

    Thanks,

    Austin
     
  2. antonv

    Member

    Nov 27, 2012
    149
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    Do you have an example of how it is used in that context?
     
  3. EZBUZZSAW

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 9, 2013
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    Not a good one, this is how they displayed it. They said make sure everyone quote full band width so it is apples to apples. May be hipe here not sure.
    Thanks!
    ProductREP BandwidthCurrent RateFixed-All InChampion Energy100%Fixed-All InConEdison Solutions100%Fixed-All InConstellation 100%
     
  4. EZBUZZSAW

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 9, 2013
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    0
    I now see that the little spreadsheet I posted was not liked by the furum.
     
  5. antonv

    Member

    Nov 27, 2012
    149
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    This is not frequency bandwidth, it's a different way of using the word "bandwidth".

    Read below from the following Dept. of Energy document: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/manufacturing/resources/petroleum_refining/pdfs/bandwidth.pdf

    Energy bandwidth analyses provide a realistic estimate of the energy that may be saved in an industrial process by quantifying three measures of energy consumption:
    •
    Theoretical minimum energy (TME). TME is a measure of the least amount of energy that a particular process would require under ideal conditions. TME calculations are based on the thermodynamic analyses of primary chemical reactions using the change in Gibbs free energy (ΔG), and assume ideal conditions (standard state, 100% selectivity and conversion) and neglect irreversibilities. In some cases, the TME values were obtained through industry publications or using the heat of reaction (ΔHr) due to insufficient Gibbs free energy data.
    •
    Practical minimum energy (PME). The PME represents the minimum energy required to carry out a process in real-world, non-standard conditions (e.g., temperature, pressure, selectivities and conversions less than 100%) that result in the formation of by-products, the need for product separation, catalyst and equipment fouling, and other factors. These conditions impose limitations that make it impossible to operate at the theoretical minimum. The energy savings considered for the practical minimum analysis are primarily based on best practices and state-of-the-art technologies currently available in the marketplace. Energy savings technologies that are considered to be in the research and development stage are footnoted in Appendix A.
    •
    Current average energy (CAE). CAE is a measure of the energy consumed by a process carried out under actual plant conditions. This measure exceeds both the theoretical and practical minimum energies due to energy losses from inefficient or outdated equipment and process design, poor heat integration, and poor conversion and selectivities, among other factors.

    The bandwidth is the difference between PME and CAE and provides a snapshot of energy losses that may be recovered by improving current processing technologies, the overall process design, current operating practices, and other related factors.
     
  6. EZBUZZSAW

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 9, 2013
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    THANKS! That is what I was looking for and could not find!
     
  7. EZBUZZSAW

    Thread Starter New Member

    Mar 9, 2013
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    0
    OK
    After reading all that I guess it has very little to do with quotes on electricity even commercial electricity. It is probably just some broker trying to pull one over on us in our quotes. You know what I mean through a bunch of meaningless terminology in the air and see if it forms a good enough smoke screen to cover up what you are doing.... Or am I missing something here, how can this relate to the electricity they are suppling to us?
     
  8. antonv

    Member

    Nov 27, 2012
    149
    27
    It looks to me like a way to determine whether any change made to a (industrial) process yields significant improvement in energy consumption, i.e. is the changed worth making.

    So kind of an academic thing.
     
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