As newbie as a noob can be,HELP!!!

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by ddsdavey, Oct 27, 2010.

  1. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Hi guys,someone recommended it here so thought id join.I am extremely new to all this although ive been fixing consoles etc for years so thought id tread a bit dseeper.
    Ok so i have a project lined up but its the simplest things that get me!
    Ok first,im using USB mini B smd and i have protoboard for the final job.The pins on the usb plugrun 2 with the other 3 below.It dosnt correspond to the holes on the protoboard,also i have a pic 18f2550 28 pin jobbie,again the legs are narrower than other,longer more "typical" pic chips that you see around.With my PG2 it fits but seems like its 2 legs for every connection when plugged into it? So obviously again i dont understand how these are meant to fit the generic holes on standad protoboard.
    I know youll probably all giggle but ive googled and googled but cannot find a single bit of help on these specics.I understand schematics,i understand the theories etc its just these silly things from not having experience.Could someone help me out dya think.
    Thanks guys.
     
  2. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    It sounds like you are trying to use Surface Mount (SMD) IC's on a DIP Protoboard?

    Can you take a clear picture and post it as an attachement? 3+ Megapixel without flash bounce would be preferred.
     
  3. nickelflipper

    Active Member

    Jun 2, 2010
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    Here are the pics and part numbers. So if it's the -I/SO part, it will be a 28 SOIC pinout. Here are some ideas on a SOIC to DIP adapter board to fit your protoboard. Similar boards may exist for the mini USB.
     
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  4. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    So i need a dip pinout for protoboards?
    Sorry guys i really,really am a complete beginner which im sure is obvious but i do find this area fascinating,perhaps im not clever enough lol!
    So is it that,depending on the canvas (so-to-speak ie board/pcb etc),that the same part will be available for the different "canvas" available ie SOIC or DIP and that i just ordered the wrong parts for my protoboard or am i just getting even more confused?!
    Ive attached everything mentioned,best photo i could get with what i have im afraid.
    [​IMG]
     
  5. blueroomelectronics

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 22, 2007
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    The DIP package is the one you want.
     
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  6. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    That is an SOIC. You can either use a "Surfboard" (link to ebay above), where you solder the SOIC to the surfboard, then plug that into the proto board you have in the photo.

    2nd option would be to order the DIP version of the PIC. I'd almost suggest going with the surfboard, as nearly everything is switching over to SMD these days, some nifty stuff is only available as BGA packages (ball grid array), which is impossible to use as for most DIYers.
     
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  7. nickelflipper

    Active Member

    Jun 2, 2010
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    Here is a SOIC "canvas". Getting a breadboard and a jumper wire kit (350pc pre-formed sets are great), makes things easy for DIP packages. Using the breadboard approach allows one to change things around before committing to a final hard wire solution like the protoboard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2010
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  8. Kermit2

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 5, 2010
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  9. maxpower097

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 20, 2009
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    You can grab an adaptor board of ebay for a dollar or two. This is the first confusing thing your gonna realize in electronics. They put out each chip in different "packages" as they are called. DIP is the one we use on breadboards and most DIY boards you will order. There are a couple SMT (Surface Mount Technology) boards you can order but they require insane soldering skills to use because each pin is .1 mm apart as opposed to 2mm apart for the dips. So basically we prototype our device in dip or dip conversion boards if needed. Then actually design the board to use SMT chips when its production time. This makes your pcb much smaller. As was said before many people are going to a ball grid system which I don't like personally. But as they do convert over BGA soldering systems will get cheaper and cheaper.
     
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  10. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Wow thanks guys,you know what,i expected lots of "pffft" (giggle,giggle) but you have been very very helpful,sorry about the "canvas" bit,couldnt think of an appropriate word but you got it!
    Yes i want to start doing this stuff but wanted to start out using DIP Protoboard (copper tracks etc) so rather than take you extremely helpful advice for getting out of this mess cheaply ive gone and bought 3 more DIP PICs,4 USB standard (A, is it?),shame,i did fancy using Mini b usb bought i assume id need a breakout board for that?
    I even had to reorder protoboard as mine ar etoo narrow for the project!
    Its going well lol!
    Is there anywhere that gives VERY basic beginner tuts or videos,i mean im a noob even down to needing a hand how to mount the USB ports solidly (what are the 2 outer "eagles claws" for?
    I dont know,you take pride in your hobby then along comes me with my "Canvas" and "Eagle claws"!
    I can see me waring that Thanks button out!
     
  11. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    The "claws" are for mechanical support of the USB jack. It appears it was designed to plug in from straight above, the two "claws" would be soldered to the ground plane on an etched PC Board.

    If the ProtoBoard you are using above has copper tracks/pads on the obverse side, then it would be a good thing to mount it vertically an solder those connections, for stability if not the shielding.

    They make them in "right angle" format as well, the one in the photo is "straight", meaning it wants to stick up from the board The right angle has the pins and mounting pre-bent as you did for ease of mounting.

    No need to switch USB jacks as you already have that one. The older/large connectors are still plentiful, and cheap, now that the mini and micro sized USB connectors are getting popular. (which cost a buck or several more).

    As for a video, there are several videos on YouTube that show how to work with SMD Devices, as well as Programming a PIC, just search for that topic on youtube, such as "Soldering SOIC", or "Programming a PIC", etc.
     
  12. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Yes i went for "Type A" now,thought it would be easier to tackle for a beginner.
    [​IMG]
    The "claws" feel like they to want to be straight to fit into corresponding holes with ease,they felt under pressure when forced to go in as they are or is that the whole point??
    Will i have to cut a pad for each "claw" to solder to so theres no trace leading from it or is this not necessry.
    Yep i told you im a beginner! Dont even know the fundamentals but im hoping things will click EVENTUALLY!
    I hope you will at least humour me,hey,it might bring a few giggles over the weeks as i gradually blow stuff and myself up!
     
  13. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    You may need to drill the hole out a bit. Just putting the claws through the board and bending them back down will take a lot of stress of the electrical connections.
     
  14. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Drill out so "claws" fit better?
    Do you mean bending them back down takes stress "OFF" the connections or "of" the connection,sorry! I interpret off as good and of as bad lol!
     
  15. Kermit2

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 5, 2010
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    You want the claws to be secured very well to the board as those connections will take the strain of plugging and unplugging the cable. If the connector moves the traces to the power and data terminals could be broken.. So solder the claws AFTER mechanically attaching them securely to the board. The better the mechanical attachment the better the connector will withstand insertion and removal of the cable.

    Do not drill out the holes for the claws unless you CANNOT fit the metal tabs in. A tight fit for mechanical connections is a good thing.
     
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  16. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Ok guys youve been wonderful so im hoping i can push your patience just a lil bit more please!?
    Ground points,i know what it is but how do i create GND points where required.Im thinking that for a component etc to connect to GND i need to create a GND point.Is a GND point just an isolated pad?
    How many components etc can use the same GND point.
    Ive read that they are usually put on the outer side/row of the board or can they be anywhere as long as its isolated.
    Or am i yet again getting this round my neck.
    I hope you can see that im Googling etc to a point that i dont get then i come here and ask you guys.I know i must appear a complete ignoramous but im trying (i know,THIS is me trying!!!).
    Thanks as always.
     
  17. ddsdavey

    Thread Starter New Member

    Oct 27, 2010
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    Hi,me AGAIN.Ok so it seems that there are 2 things that travel off the board so-to-speak.GND and VCC,this is power and ground yes?
    Ive looked everywhere but i find no nfo unless i dont know where to look or its THAT noobish that its assumed you know that much at the very least.I do realise im doing things completely the wrong way round but im hoping once i get doing the practical building part that itll all start to make sense but obviously i dont want to start until i at least know 100% how to deal with everything safely and correctly.
    Im not the type to post here,there and everywhere so ive only joined this site and you guys seem to have been really patient with me upto this point and have been extremely helpful even though it seems like i aint learning anything!
     
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