Amateurs !!

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by PackratKing, Mar 31, 2011.

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  1. PackratKing

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
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    Not that I have a whole lot to brag about, as I fall in the category as well.

    Reading through a few querys regarding what can be done with microwave oven transformers......... rewinding, installing other secondaries w/ larger wire for a different application......ad infinitum.........

    Some of the misconceptions, and subsequent misguidances posted by other amateurs, or those who should know better, [[ if the shoe fits, wear it !! ]] are utterly hilarious...............almost :(

    The point to this ? In the event you have questions along these lines, or aspirations to convert one to another use.........

    Read the AAC e-books, or any other reputable source covering transformer technology.
    If the math is above you, or you have any other shortfall, walk away.

    Few and far between are the seasoned technicians, as well as not-so-amateur radio enthusiasts who have actually wound their own transformers, that will tell you it is an easy task. There are construction techniques that are not optional if you want your finished product to work properly and be safe.

    Shortcuts do not work. I should know, I've tried them all :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  2. someonesdad

    Senior Member

    Jul 7, 2009
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    Good for you -- that's hard-won knowledge! Why don't you set it down in print for the rest of us? I'll help you however I can.
     
  3. Kermit2

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 5, 2010
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    I always strive to learn how to do more things, but, for those subjects I'll just never have time to touch before I die, I carry cash $$


    :)
     
  4. eblc1388

    Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2008
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    The laminated iron cores of microwave transformer are welded together at the seams and it is impossible to separate them into individual parts so one can get unrestricted access to the former.
     
  5. PackratKing

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
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    Yes, you are absolutely right.

    ANY welded transformer frame is impossible to open without utter ruination, and even if one can open them cleanly, removal of that material renders them useless due to the alteration of their electrical characteristics,
    Reassembled units crash and burn 100% of the time. Maybe not instantly, as most do, though those that don't blow immediately, will most certainly burn in short order. beentheredonethat..

    As stated in my original offering in this thread, I have already made all the mistakes, and spent the thousands of hours and untold money trying. Save your money, good health and effort for more productive endeavors.

    Any success I mentioned was / is / should have been, prohibitively expensive in both the time and money, and very likely could have hurt me permanently.......

    Anyone still determined ??

    Don't ever come back here and say you weren't warned.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  6. GetDeviceInfo

    Senior Member

    Jun 7, 2009
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    So now that we've heard the talk and the chest thumping, I'm thoroughly expecting that you'll back this up with some real hard guidelines for those that really want to know. Otherwise it's totally pointless posturing.
     
  7. PackratKing

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
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    So........... sue me !! :D

    My concern, which hit me like an express train, and I'm certain Admin would agree, is the unknown number of total amateurs and ne'er-do-wells out there, [ if the shoe fits, wear it ] that can use the info for all the wrong reasons.

    My humble apologies to all that this upsets. The E-books and a truckload of other references give all the info needed. Your technical construction skills, or lack thereof, are all you need to attain the same goal I did.
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  8. GetDeviceInfo

    Senior Member

    Jun 7, 2009
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    I might be misunderstanding, but are you saying that your failure equals failure for everyone else?

    in other words, once an amateur, always an amateur.

    Proceed with caution, absolutely, safety first. Isotation, never without. The first fools that playing with transformers where amateurs in the field. Over years they and thier subjects developed the industry into what it is today. I do agree that if your not determined or have a goal in mind, it's cheaper to walk away or buy what you need. But experiementation has a strange way of teaching.

    What specifically has it taught you?
     
  9. PackratKing

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
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    Q1: quite the contrary.....my effort yielded a successful method for me to alter transformers at will. I'm certain equal effort on anothers part can yield equal result.
    Construction details are the pivot. For those who would whine about time being money....... In my industrial experience, good rebuilders nowadays might as well be dinosaurs, as I am :D 'cause to do what I do, according to the beancounters " Kawst tew muuuch" [ sarcasm intended ]

    Q2: Honestly, the math never came easy to me, and darn near convinced me to drop the whole pursuit.
    Building skills ? Re; my nom de plume....I've done this type of puttering for over 50 years. I have one formidable list of skills.
    I agree wholeheartedly with your view, that experimentation has a strange way of teaching. Kindly don't expect me to give the farm away.

    " In other words, once an amateur, always an amateur." You said that...I did not.

    Q3: It has taught me things that I am reluctant to discuss. Some of my "playing" has led to the development, construction , and subsequent destruction of some devices a terrorist cell would dearly love to get their meathooks on. No details forthcoming on that count.

    The whole thing almost makes me regret starting the thread in the first place.. It was never intended to start a pi**ing contest. Admin will close a thread seeking or giving info on high voltage in a heartbeat. This kind of information is just as dangerous in the hands of the uneducated or foolhardy [[ again if the shoe fits.......]]
     
    Last edited: Apr 1, 2011
  10. eblc1388

    Senior Member

    Nov 28, 2008
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    Microwave oven transformer is especially dangerous.

    The simple act of just powering it up and measuring the secondary voltage will likely to blow your meter or kill you.

    When powered ON, its secondary winding can have peak voltage of over 2,000V, with lots of current, and virtually no meter in the home of normal hobbyist can safely measure a voltage that high. It will damage the meter by the least, causing flashover or even kill you.

    If you think 110V or 230V is quite dangerous, think again at 2,000V. You don't stand a chance.

    If one want to experiment with transformer, there are other safer alternatives, like using a toroid transformer instead that allow user to experiment with ease by winding extra turns as secondary.
     
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  11. Audioguru

    New Member

    Dec 20, 2007
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    Although I have never seen a microwave oven transformer, I have read a lot of threads where guys remove the high voltage winding and add a heavy low voltage winding for use in a simple square-wave inverter. But it draws a very high current even with no load.

    I suspect it is because the transformer is very cheap so it does not have enough copper (turns) on its line voltage winding. Since a microwave oven does not run continuously for hours then the heating and wasted power will not be noticed.
     
  12. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 2, 2009
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    Umm!! don't mind me

    but, if you can't share it....might as well shut up. :D
     
  13. strantor

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 3, 2010
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    I can attest to that. I fried both the meters I had in my house within 5 min. Thankfully I have been trained in electrical safety so I didn't hurt myself. I probably should not have been messing around with that because I was/still am one of the "amateurs" you speak of; However I am a grown man and an inquisitive one. I know there are young kids out there reading this stuff too. When I was a kid I did pretty much whatever I wanted - read about it in books from the library, then did it. There were no internet forums on the topic (well, there probably were, but I didn't have a computer) - so I wasn't dependent on that resource & didn't have anybody to censor the information available to me. I never got hurt.

    The issue of admins removing posts about high voltage always makes me think that maybe it would ultimately be safer if there were an area at some corner of the internet (maybe for 18 & up) for people who "just won't be dissuaded" - a place where they can learn how to do "dangerous" things safely, based on solid, proper information. That, again would require censorship of the answers provided. I don't really know what the answer is. I just think that a good amount of people coming here and asking questions that make you squirm are not going to take your refusal to answer their question as a sign, and they are likely going to move forward based on information from "God-knows-where" , or based on no information at all, and end up hurt.
     
  14. PackratKing

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
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    Sage advice.......I already did a few posts back.......and I'm not regretting it at all !! :D
     
  15. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

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    you know I am always too scared to meddle with microwaves. I read about the magnetron and since I dunno what the heck it is, then, I prefer to stay away.

    But there are pretty genius techs here that repair microwave after opening it up and by passing the safety features. They would operate it like that. One way or the other it's a diode they replace.

    If I see anyone fixing a microwave I always prefer to get lost from that area ASAP. It's a microwave thing, nobody here understands much about those unseen brain cooking wave thingy's

    Oh well !! Might as well find a microwave form the junk and see what this TX fuss is all about.
     
  16. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

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    so there ain't anyway you could be exposed to those microwaves.
     
  17. Kermit2

    AAC Fanatic!

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    I say post the dangerous information and let Darwin weed out the weak DNA. Humans would have a healthier genetic diversity without so much 'idiot' DNA in the mix.

    :)
     
  18. PackratKing

    Thread Starter Well-Known Member

    Jul 13, 2008
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    Do this at your own risk, with a "spotter' or second opinion on board, and take every conceivable safety precaution !!

    Continuing the quote:

    ""But there are pretty genius techs here that repair microwave after opening it up and by passing the safety features. They would operate it like that. "" :eek::eek:

    Anyone doing this, has a death wish, or wants to go thru the balance of their life vision-impaired or blinded.

    NOTHING any electronic technician can work on is more insidiously dangerous !!! Damage to your body is likely done before you can realize it. Once the pain starts, it's usually too late.

    Just take this advice at face value

    Some in this thread have displayed anger at me for not sharing experience. for this, I humbly apologize, and will not relent.
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2011
  19. R!f@@

    AAC Fanatic!

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    No use in getting angry, I always say....
     
  20. GetDeviceInfo

    Senior Member

    Jun 7, 2009
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    That is substantially different than;

    you've aligned your position with microwaves specifically, but that was not evident in your original posts.
     
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