I'm starting this thread for the odd ducks that don't fit in solar and whatnot.

Tests find Rossi's E-Cat has an energy density at least 10 times higher than any conventional energy source

I'm skeptical, but hey, now and then new stuff does come out.

 

Wow. You'll not only allow this discussion, but actually start it?

As a moderator, can you explain how E-Cat is different than over-unity and why such a discussion is allowed here?

 

Wow. You'll not only allow this discussion, but actually start it?

As a moderator, can you explain how E-Cat is different than over-unity and why such a discussion is allowed here?

The E-Cat is not creating or supplying lossless energy (which is the concept behind overunity and perpetual-motion devices). THAT is impossible. Instead, it is simply a more efficient type of power source that can supply more energy with a smaller package.

 

The E-Cat is not creating or supplying lossless energy (which is the concept behind overunity and perpetual-motion devices). It is simply an efficient power source.

The way I read it, it is junk science pretending to be an efficient power source -- just like overunity.

 

I'm starting this thread for the odd ducks that don't fit in solar and whatnot.

Tests find Rossi's E-Cat has an energy density at least 10 times higher than any conventional energy source

I'm skeptical, but hey, now and then new stuff does come out.

I remember people following this and talking about it and although if I had developed something like this I certainly would not allow anyone to know what is inside the inner tube...but because it is not allowed...such a energy source will remain dubious as a reality as it is possible to make a lot of money on something that people just THINK WORKS.

The TELL will be if the people who own or control the rights to this thing either turn down an offer by a major energy generating or distribution corp. as it is inevitable that massive corps along the lines of Exxon Mobil will attempt a buy out.

Such Buy Outs have happened many times in the past and a few people that are asked to demonstrate this tech. and after the big corp. signs non-disclosure and non-use or development agreements and these people still refuse to show the details of how it works...but are more than willing to accept R&D Money...well...that's a TELL.

Plus a few guy's that are offered Huge amounts of money for something that might take many years of development and fighting on the political scene before they might see a penny...are going to be more than willing to take the Big Money NOW rather than wait till their 80 before they can enjoy it.

Split Infinity

 

Wow. You'll not only allow this discussion, but actually start it?

As a moderator, can you explain how E-Cat is different than over-unity and why such a discussion is allowed here?

The way I read it, it is junk science pretending to be an efficient power source -- just like overunity.

That is an opinion, but it does have some evidence behind it, and it violates no scientific principles, unlike overunity and perpetual motion. There is even a citation, for what it is worth. Phys.org doesn't usually post junk science.

You are allowed to be skeptical, as I am, but I find the attitude you just showed a bit offensive. It came very close to being personal. Please don't.

 

There's been a lot of controversy around that Rossi guy and his claims Bill.

Even this sentence (taken from your link) pushes it a bit;
"(Phys.org) —In the ongoing saga of Andrea Rossi's energy catalyzer (E-Cat) that promises clean, cheap power for the world"

From what I understand of his device, it is a one time use only chemical process. That was also promoted under various claims of renewable/reusable/overunity etc.

"Clean, cheap power for the world"? From an unstable one time use chemical battery? That has to be re-manufactured to be used again?

I have a heap of 9v batteries here that can already provide "Clean, cheap power for the world".

 

It's so easy to fool energy measurements if you are running a scam and won't allow true independent testing.
Rossi -> professional swindler

Rossi also refused to unplug the machine while it was operating! Now, Peter Thieberger (who co-wrote this post with me, and who is a respected nuclear/particle physicist) has demonstrated just how easy it would be to keep power flowing to a device in such a way to fool an ammeter, which is a device for measuring electrical current. In other words, it would show that no current was flowing when one actually was!

http://scienceblogs.com/startswitha...-is-back-and-people-are-still-falling-for-it/

 

I agree with all of the above. In time it will be proven or shown to be a scam. I wonder if they will do a follow up if it is a scam, phys.org will look kinda dumb.

 

One vote for Andrea Rossi the clown.

The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

 

...
http://scienceblogs.com/startswitha...-is-back-and-people-are-still-falling-for-it/
...

Nice link, thanks.

I like the bit where the customer for the 1MW device was "happy" with it producing 470kW for 5.5 hours. All by itself.

How happy was the customer later when they realised the large internal volume of expensive catalyst was all used up (surprise) and it wouldn't work any more after that?

Any credible testing would involve proving charge energy vs discharge energy (like any normal battery testing), or of course any proof of continuous energy output of even a small amount of energy.

Rossi avoids both those test situations, and all we have seen are some short term energy output stunts. I won't call them tests.

 

5/24/2013 Forbes...The E-Cat Test Team, Real or Ringers?

Take a look at Rossi's Team and what they have Published.

LINK...http://www.forbes.com/sites/markgibbs/2013/05/24/the-e-cat-testing-team-real-or-ringers/

Check this guy out...IF...he IS this guy...or someone else?

Name: Lars Tegnér
Position: Professor Emeritus ESC -0.67%
Affiliation: Department of Engineering Sciences, Division of Electricity, Uppsala University
Location: Uppsala, Sweden
Publications: Doctoral thesis – otherwise apparently not published unless he is also P.-E. Tegnér in which case he’s somehow connected to Stockholm University

Split Infinity

 

5/24/2013 Forbes...The E-Cat Test Team, Real or Ringers?

The Schön scandal concerns German physicist Jan Hendrik Schön (born 1970 in Verden) who briefly rose to prominence after a series of apparent breakthroughs with semiconductors that were later discovered to be fraudulent.[1] Before he was exposed, Schön had received the Otto-Klung-Weberbank Prize for Physics and the Braunschweig Prize in 2001 as well as the Outstanding Young Investigator Award of the Materials Research Society in 2002, which was later rescinded.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schön_scandal

We have seen some of the smartest people fooled by fraudsters. Deliberate fraud by smart people can be very hard to detect but the E-Cat case is a pretty simple Power in/Power out scam that reminds me of the 'FTL' neutrino result explanation, all kinds of fantastic reasons for the result were floated by some of the top theorist in the field but it turned out to be a loose cable.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...mmentKey:ba0a1089-9bc4-4c26-aca4-ed81d8af86fb

 

That is an opinion, but it does have some evidence behind it, and it violates no scientific principles, unlike overunity and perpetual motion. There is even a citation, for what it is worth. Phys.org doesn't usually post junk science.

You are allowed to be skeptical, as I am, but I find the attitude you just showed a bit offensive. It came very close to being personal. Please don't.

Actually, I've seen phys.org post so much stuff that was bogus snake oil that I no longer even follow links that go there (including this one).

 

So where do you go?

 

Actually, I've seen phys.org post so much stuff that was bogus snake oil that I no longer even follow links that go there (including this one).

WOW!

You KNOW a group or company are going to have Marketing and Stock issues when you google the name of the BOSS and end up with THIS....http://shutdownrossi.com/rossis-partners-investors/rossis-scientists/

This next one lists in an order of time present to past...a VAST amount of information specific to E-Cat being a HOAX....http://newenergytimes.com/v2/sr/RossiECat/RossiTimeline.shtml

This Link details actual FRAUD and you will not believe some of the crap they have pulled..http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3015554/posts.

HERE IS A LINK FROM 7 HOURS AGO DETAILING HOW ANDREA ROSSI IS NO LONGER IN CONTROL OF E-CAT...http://www.e-catworld.com/2013/05/rossi-no-longer-controls-e-cat-business/

This one takes the cake!....http://ecatworldnews.com/

Bill...there is NOT A SNOWBALLS CHANCE IN HELL that E-CAT or ANDREA ROSSI are LEGIT in any possible facet or use or definition of the word.

E-CAT IS A HOAX and people are getting hurt by having their entire life savings stolen as well as many, many people in the energy business as well as affiliated in one manner or the other to ROSSI have become just now aware of a possible FBI INVESTIGATION that is just now being wrapped up.

Personally I think those who are at the top rung KNOW this and are trying to MOVE as much money or other paper held investments as fast as they can!

People like this SICKEN ME as they do not even blink an eye when taking other peoples money that for some is what is left of their life savings after the market drop.

If I were you Bill...I would seriously reconsider advocating in any way E-CAT.

Split Infinity

 

WOW!

You KNOW a group or company are going to have Marketing and Stock issues when you google the name of the BOSS and end up with THIS....http://shutdownrossi.com/rossis-partners-investors/rossis-scientists/

Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately there are LOTS of products out there that are pure snake oil that I still see being advertised from time to time using the same claims that, in some cases, they were using two or three decades ago. The simple fact is that the people they are selling to are far too gullible to even consider actually asking if the claims make sense. And the people pushing the snake oil are fully aware of this. In fact, to many of them, being the brunt of harsh criticism in the news is a dream come true. Many people will remember hearing the product's name but will have completely forgotten that it was in a story telling what garbage it was. But name-recognition is one of the key mantras for marketing success. Then, the outfit just starts talking about how they are simply being smeared by Big-This or Big-That who are threatened by their breakthrough. The fact that they are being smeared is "proof" that their product actually works!

 

"The simple fact is that the people they are selling to are far too gullible to even consider actually asking if the claims make sense. And the people pushing the snake oil are fully aware of this."





Kind of sounds like all the so-called Religions of the World, doesn't it?


Blind faith, will lead to Blind alleys.

 

Maybe, maybe not. Unfortunately there are LOTS of products out there that are pure snake oil that I still see being advertised from time to time using the same claims that, in some cases, they were using two or three decades ago. The simple fact is that the people they are selling to are far too gullible to even consider actually asking if the claims make sense. And the people pushing the snake oil are fully aware of this. In fact, to many of them, being the brunt of harsh criticism in the news is a dream come true. Many people will remember hearing the product's name but will have completely forgotten that it was in a story telling what garbage it was. But name-recognition is one of the key mantras for marketing success. Then, the outfit just starts talking about how they are simply being smeared by Big-This or Big-That who are threatened by their breakthrough. The fact that they are being smeared is "proof" that their product actually works!

WBahn...these days it is possible to develop something of an E-Cats nature...except one that actually works...and by using a few good Lawyers who are experienced in Breakthrough Product Development and Marketing...let's say for Ha Ha's the E-Cat was determined to actually work years back when they first started working on it...but they knew that it would take 8 to 10 years worth of working out the bugs to make it viable as well as sell able on a large scale.

The people controlling or owning a working E-Cat would just have their lawyers draw up some Lock Tight Non-Disclosure causes and other contracts specific to allow a large Corp. access to the data and research as well as a demonstration that would be necessary to not only seal a major deal...but doing it in such a way could allow the Working E-Cat Team to retain control over a very profitable interest in the company as well as get all the R&D Money and extra engineers they might ever need.

Doing it this way is how most people or groups who know they have a Golden Goose in hands will structure a deal...as example the woman who wrote the Harry Potter Books eventually owned everything from the controlling interest all the way to the mills and logging companies who cut down the trees and turned that wood into Paper for the books.

Thus it makes ABSOLUTELY NO SENSE for Andrea Rossi to have brought along the E-Cat in the manner it was handled...UNLESS...The E-Cat was a FRAUD!

And that is EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE HERE.

Split Infinity

 

"The simple fact is that the people they are selling to are far too gullible to even consider actually asking if the claims make sense. And the people pushing the snake oil are fully aware of this."





Kind of sounds like all the so-called Religions of the World, doesn't it?


Blind faith, will lead to Blind alleys.

Many (most) religions, yes. And also many government programs (you name the country and the government) and many "causes" function on this same model (even "legitimate" programs and causes).