Airless tires...

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
@cmartinez @Hypatia's Protege
I was thinking something along the lines of three possibilities,

One of speaking before thinking: "Metatarsal Reply" (a toe clicked "post reply" just before the sender's foot went into his/her mouth)

One of posting before clearly formulating a reasonable response: "Premature Pontification"

One of posting a random thought that does not correspond to the thread in any way: "Disorderly Construct"
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,218
@cmartinez @Hypatia's Protege
I was thinking something along the lines of three possibilities,

One of speaking before thinking: "Metatarsal Reply" (a toe clicked "post reply" just before the sender's foot went into his/her mouth)

One of posting before clearly formulating a reasonable response: "Premature Pontification"

One of posting a random thought that does not correspond to the thread in any way: "Disorderly Construct"
Mmmmhhh.... how about "CTTE"? -> "Carpal Tunnel Twitching Event" ? Emoji Smiley-12.png
Nnaahhh... it's funny but it's too long... Emoji Smiley-53.png
 

tom_s

Joined Jun 27, 2014
288
getting back to op, one of my clients (tyrefill) unlike the air-pocketed tyres mentioned, tyres are filled with a 2 part compound which basically sets as solid rubber inside the wheels

main market there is building site machinery - tracktors/back hoes where the terrain is not hospitable

have seen some of the tyres they have replaced, the amount of crap those tyres pick up, reo bars speared through them, bolts/nails/spikes etc... thought to mind at present, good for getting away from the police :)

actually got them to do the hand trolly wheels for me (twice, the loan out never got returned) and also seen quite a few bicycle tyres filled onsite
 

Hypatia's Protege

Joined Mar 1, 2015
3,228
one of my clients (tyrefill) unlike the air-pocketed tyres mentioned, tyres are filled with a 2 part compound which basically sets as solid rubber inside the wheels
Interesting! Would wheels so treated be 'balanceable' for application to passenger cars operating up to maximum speeds of say 130KMPH???

With sincere interest
HP:)
 

GopherT

Joined Nov 23, 2012
8,009
Interesting! Would wheels so treated be 'balanceable' for application to passenger cars operating up to maximum speeds of say 130KMPH???

With sincere interest
HP:)
If they have solved the balance issue, that would be a major step. Also, the rubber/gel would have to allow reasonable deformation around potholes and road irregularities like current pneumatic tires. If not, the movement gets transferred to the dampers/struts/shock absorbers. Those are designed for only a certain amount of movement. Too much movement and the fluid starts heating and performance degrades.

Rebound on the far side of a pothole is critical for a suspension system. A hard tire would put this chore completely on the shock absorber. The role of the shock absorber is not to smooth the ride for the driver but to keep the tire on the road. If the hard tire hits the hard, irregular edge of a pothole, then it will suddenly accelerate upwards and certainly leave the road surface for some time after the pothole. Dangerous.

Now, think how hard your suspension works with a 15 pound tire, a 20 pound rim and 5 pound brake disk and 10 pound wheel bearing/hub. Now, add 3 to 5 gallons of fluid (25 to 40 pounds) of gel/rubber to fill the balance of the tire. Spin that tire at 60 miles per hour and now, not only does your gel tire have more momentum up/downton suspensio, but more weight has been added away from the center of mass so you greatly increase gyroscopic effects and make post-filling balancing nearly impossible.

Active damping systems can help but, that is for another post.
 

tom_s

Joined Jun 27, 2014
288
Interesting! Would wheels so treated be 'balanceable' for application to passenger cars operating up to maximum speeds of say 130KMPH???

With sincere interest
HP:)
i don't think there would be any issues balancing, you need to take into consideration the extra weight of the tyre

60k is about the maximum you'd be doing and this is NOT really designed for consumer motor vehicles. the 2 part compound is pumped into the tyre at manufacturers recommended tyre pressure. there are air 'escape' holes put into the tyre during filling and blocked when all air expelled

the amount of weight added is equivalent to filling the wheel with water. GopherT's estimation is about right

its not a super hard compound when cured (overnight), about the same density as a pencil eraser. hence i wouldn't personally look at putting them on cars (4wd - very slim maybe's) on a good side, riding on these tyres is very smooth (terrain shock dampening)

main company is in UK (carpenters) local downunder for more info - http://www.tyrefill.com.au/faq_s.html

and i do know they did fill a couple of plane tyres not long back but not sure for what type

edit: fixed typo's
 
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Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,218
i don't think there would be any issues balancing, you need to take into consideration the extra weight of the tyre

60k is about the maximum you'd be doing and this is NOT really designed for consumer motor vehicles. the 2 part compound is pumped into the tyre at manufacturers recommended tyre pressure. there are air 'escape' holes put into the tyre during filling and blocked when all air expelled

the amount of weight added is equivalent to filling the wheel with water. GopherT's estimation is about right

its not a super hard compound when cured (overnight), about the same density as a pencil eraser. hence i wouldn't personally look at putting them on cars (4wd - very slim maybe's) on a good side, riding on these tyres is very smooth (terrain shock dampening)

main company is in UK (carpenters) local downunder for more info - http://www.tyrefill.com.au/faq_s.html

and i do know they did fill a couple of plane tyres not long back but not sure for what type

edit: fixed typo's
I wonder how its performance is affected by extreme temperatures. Say, winters of -20*C and summers of 48*C
 

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
I expect that all tires arrive at 50C during normal use, therefore designing them for higher temperatures than that would be expected.

Of course, a dozen different websites thoroughly explain that "A", "B", and "C" mean, "temperature rating". :mad:

A typical operating range for a DOT-R tire is 180˚F to 200˚F with a hot pressure of 32-40 psi.
http://www.hoosierdirect.com/Tire_Temperatures.html
 
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Hypatia's Protege

Joined Mar 1, 2015
3,228
I wonder how its performance is affected by extreme temperatures. Say, winters of -20*C and summers of 48*C
I can't get past -20°C (i.e. -4°F) being considered extreme!?:confused: On the other hand a temp of +48°C is unthinkable! - Just unthinkable!!!:eek::eek::eek: -- Perhaps a partial climatic 'swap' is in order?:D

Best regards
HP
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,218
I can't get past -20°C (i.e. -4°F) being considered extreme!?:confused: On the other hand a temp of +48°C is unthinkable! - Just unthinkable!!!:eek::eek::eek: -- Perhaps a partial climatic 'swap' is in order?:D

Best regards
HP
oooohhh..... I see what you mean... extreme is a relative term... down here +48°C is not unheard of in august, whilst -5°C is unimaginable in january!
Although up there in the mountains (to which I'm quite close) temperatures are never that high, but can reach -12°C on a bad winter day.
 
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Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,218
I expect that all tires arrive at 50C during normal use
I expect even more than that... perhaps up to 70°C due to normal flexing and friction
Down here a car's inside temperature can easily reach 75°C (especially if it has black upholstery... like mine Emoji Smiley-79.png) if it's left in the sun for a few hours, with its windows closed. That's why sometimes I leave them down a tiny crack... just to vent the thing a little bit...
 

Hypatia's Protege

Joined Mar 1, 2015
3,228
oooohhh..... I see what you mean... extreme is relative... down here +48°C is not unheard of in august, whilst -5°C is unimaginable in january!
Although up there in the mountains (to which I'm quite close) temperatures are never that high, but can reach -12°C on a bad winter day.
Seems we each have our 'meteorological crosses' to bear -- of varied configuration but equal weight...

FWIW Here's what's to be expected in the way of ambient temps hereabouts (apologies for the lack of tabulation:oops:)

>85°F [>29.4°C] Oppressively warm temps (Typically a few occurrences each year)
50°F Thru 70°F [10°C Thru 21°C] -- Comfortable Summer Temps
20°F Thru 45°F [-6.7°C Thru 7.2°C] Mild Autumn/Vernal Temps
-15°F Thru 15°F [-26°C Thru -9.4°C] Typical Late autumn/early Vernal and mild winter temps
-40°F Thru 0°F [-40°C Thru -18°C] Typical Winter Temp range
<-60°F Thru -45°F [<-51°C Thru -43°C] 'Frosty' winter temps ('Lower end' seen perhaps two seasons each decade)

Note that the very warm summer temperatures (i.e. > 29°C) are a 'double whammy' in that they tend to 'spawn' destructive tempests (Complete with: tornadoes, high velocity straight-line winds, large hail stones, and, IMO, worst of all, prolific lightning and all the damage it does just everything connected to the power grid:mad:)

Yes, Ok! I suppose there's some irony to be had in a self-described EHT enthusiast 'carping' about lightning - but there it is!;):D

48C happens inside my car, regularly. If you think that's a limit for tires, you've been at fiesta too long.

(@HP)
Certainly not an upper limit for tyres - but well in excess of my upper limit for survival (or, at best, desire to survive!):eek::eek::eek:

Best regards
HP:)
 
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Hypatia's Protege

Joined Mar 1, 2015
3,228
How about a heat index of 73°C (164°F) ... is that meteorological cross extreme enough? View attachment 89622
:eek::eek::eek::eek: -- Sorry! that's the best I can do! -- the available emoticons fail...

It occurs to me that a malfunctioning AC must be a safety-of-life emergency in a way that a failed heating plant could never be!? -- After all, owing to the homeothermic nature of mammalian metabolism, one can 'dress' for low temps no matter how extreme --- but once the temp exceeds +37°C you're out of luck!!!

Best regards
HP
 

#12

Joined Nov 30, 2010
18,224
It occurs to me that a malfunctioning AC must be a safety-of-life emergency in a way that a failed heating plant could never be!? -- After all, owing to the homeothermic nature of mammalian metabolism, one can 'dress' for low temps no matter how extreme --- but once the temp exceeds +37°C you're out of luck!!!
You are absolutely right! Without air conditioning, Florida would still belong to the alligators and mosquitoes. During my 30 years as a Florida Air Conditioning Contractor, I always checked the, "heat index" to see what resources I must have available to survive. Without those, the job doesn't happen.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,218
You are absolutely right! Without air conditioning, Florida would still belong to the alligators and mosquitoes. During my 30 years as a Florida Air Conditioning Contractor, I always checked the, "heat index" to see what resources I must have available to survive. Without those, the job doesn't happen.
You have 30 years experience in AC??? oooohhhhh.... I've got many questions for you, dude.... stay tuned
 
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