add remote control function to a roller door

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by samjesse, Dec 3, 2011.

  1. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    Last edited: Dec 3, 2011
  2. SgtWookie

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    Jul 17, 2007
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    The first thing that comes to mind is how safe that might be.

    A large powered door really needs an operator standing by the opening while the door is moving, to make certain that no damage or injury will occur. If one attempted to operate it remotely, they would not have the same ability to see the door's movement.

    The next thing is type of transmitter/receiver. You would need a "rolling code" type transmitter/receiver, to help prevent unintended operation due to electrical noise, or other undesired RF reception.

    The next item of concern is the high voltage aspect. 450v is nothing to fool around with. If this is any kind of commercial building, you must have an electrician do the work.

    We have no idea how the controls are wired. If you don't have a complete schematic of the system, we can't even start.
     
  3. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    I do not have the schematic. I posted a photo of the back of the switch. the building is 40 years old. what I have to work with is limited.

    Using the second photo:
    jumping blue and red closes the door.
    jumping black and red opens the door.
    jumping maroon and brown does nothing (I expected it to stop the door) as that what this switch does.
     
  4. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    I know the remote added on to a semi-sized door opener was a cube about 1 foot square and 6" deep, with pretty big cables between it and the opener.

    I'd suggest contacting your local overhead door opening company to take a look at it.

    Adding a "hack" to the manual controls could be bad in the long run, especially if some measurements or assumptions are incorrect.
     
  5. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    437v between black and red wires. Zero between any other wires.

    The red button stops the door when it is moving up or down.

    Blue and Red opens the door (white button)
    Black and Red closes the door (black button)
    Brown&Red and Maroon stops the door (red button)
     
  6. praondevou

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 9, 2011
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    A few questions:

    How much money can you spend on this?
    What's the required distance between the (yet to be built) control box and the transmitter?
    Just to make sure, the buttons are momentary NO contacts, right?

    As was mentioned there is a safety issue.
    When using the butons, to stop the door in case of an emergency the operator will not be far away from the panel (since he just pushed a button, right). If the door is activated with a remote control and then the remote control fails for any reason while the door is moving there needs to be a possibility to stop the door if something is blocking it. Is there such a device installed? Like a light barrier for example?

    I would probably use 3 x 480VAC rated contactors whose NO contacts I would simply put in parallel with the buttons.
    I have something in mind on how to activate those contactors via RF, there are plenty of off-the-shelf solutions but I would like you to tell us how you will address the safety issue.

    480V is also quite dangerous if you don't know what you are doing. Are you qualified to carry out this work?
     
  7. T.Jackson

    New Member

    Nov 22, 2011
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    Triple phase AC power? To hell with that. Sounds dangerous Amigo. Better for you to pay someone who knows what they are doing.
     
  8. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    Answers:
    cost < $400
    distance >20m
    All 3 buttons are momentary, the 2 NO and the 1 NC.
    Safety: I will make extra sure that there is nothing in its way. I am not sure if it stops by itself if restricted by an object, "yet to try", but I do not think so.
    Qualification: I wired 415v 2 hoists and setup complete wiring system for 2 room office I built myself plus daily handle of 10K-40K DCV on vehicles.

    I am thinking about a
    Rolling Code 3-channel UHF Relay Board with contacts that can handle 415VAC and if not, then I will have to settle for 2 stage solution.
     
  9. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
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    Remember to put your receiver essentially in a Faraday Cage / metal enclosure.

    When the contactors make or break, there can be a rather large broadband RF spike, put the antenna as far away as physically possible from the motor and contactors.

    I've seen installations where the RF unit was mounted at the door, so the antenna could hang outside at the top of the door (just an insulated wire), then communicate to the contactor 30 feet back on the ceiling where the motor is.
     
  10. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    thanks for all the info.
    I am not able to locate a NC relay to suit. if not found, I may have to settle for on and off but not stop.
     
  11. praondevou

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 9, 2011
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    There are lots of wireless options on ebay (not sure how easy it would be to hack their coding), of course not with the contact rating you need. So you need to wire 3 additional relays with the correct rating. There are probably thousands of them out there.
    Have a look at the major distributors to get an idea. THIS is an example, bit of an overkill but you would be on the save side. If you are not familiar with the terms SPDT etc. have a look HERE. Except for the SPST "NO" switch every other switch has the function "NC", see?
    There are really many options, you may also find suitable contactors at your local electric/electronic store. Since the door motor current is obviously not flowing through the push buttons the main rating you need to pay attention to is the contact voltage rating, 480VAC.

    If using off the shelf components/modules the whole thing could be built for less than $100 with the RF-modules from eBay, if using a more professional RF module, for less than $150, including electric panel and wiring.
     
  12. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    The NC switch must be your STOP button.

    That NC switch needs to be wired in series with a high-voltage relay or HV SSR that is energized by a low voltage NC relay on the remote control board. This way, if the power fails, or the SSR fails open, or the STOP button is pressed or fails open, the contactors at the motor are disengaged.

    It would probably be best to use an SSR for the stop switch, as the current requirement for an SSR primary side would be less than for an electromechanical relay.

    The Up and Down switches, being NO, could be wired in parallel with either relays or SSRs. The relays or SSRs would be powered by NO relays on the remote control board.

    You will need a source of 12v power to operate the remote control board.
     
  13. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    the problem with this is that if the remote control fails, I loose the manual control as well, I'd rather connect all controls in parallel so that I have remote as well as manual all functions.
     
  14. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    Is this way correct. see attached.
    If so, I don't understand where will the UHF board contacts get its electricity to power up the relays from?
    Or
    do I need to connect the relay control circuit in series with the UHF contacts in series with an external volt which is suitable for the SSR input and UHF contacts? i.e. 24VDC and if this is the case then relay 1 will be powered up all the time. right?
     
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  15. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    Thx. I'd liked this one best if the relays are SPDT. :(
    Oh well. I'll keep looking.
     
  16. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    You have to connect the STOP feature in series with the existing Stop button. If you attempt to connect them in parallel, then neither the existing stop button nor the remote stop will function independently of each other. You would have to activate both to stop the motor, and that is not good at all.

    The Stop button is where the power comes from for the Up and Down buttons.

    [​IMG]

    If the connection between the maroon wire and brown wire is broken, the door stops (contactors open at the motor).

    You will need to connect the add-on stop relay/SSR in series with the maroon wire.

    If you want to be able to bypass the remote receiver stop function, you will need to use a double-pole double-throw toggle switch that is rated for 480V or more, and use one side of it to close the connection across where the stop relay/SSR was installed in the maroon wire, and at the same time have the other side of the switch interrupt the connection between the red (brown) wire and the remote control. If you have to disable the stop function on the remote receiver, you must also disable the receiver's up/down function.
     
  17. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    No, that is not correct. If you wired it that way, neither stop function would work.

    You also need a DPDT switch to enable or disable the remote receiver. This will provide you with an extra security feature; you can use the remote enable/disable switch to disable the remote during off hours so that no one could use a remote to activate the door.

    The added DPDT enable/disable switch will also provide you with a troubleshooting aid; if you have problems, you can disable receiver control using the switch, and see if the manual buttons work. If they all work, you know that the receiver is having problems.

    You need a source of 12v DC power for the remote control receiver. If there is no electrical power nearby, you could use a 12v supply plugged in to an outlet somewhere else, and then run low voltage wiring to where the receiver is. You still want to use good quality wire, but it will be a good bit less expensive than running a 120VAC line and installing an outlet.
    Huh?

    You need a source of 12v DC power. As long as the selected SSR or electromechanical relay will turn on with 12v or less, and the SSR/relay contacts are rated for >450VDC, it should work.

    Most of these remote receivers you'll find will work on 12v. That's because many installations will be using 12v sealed lead acid batteries for backup power. You don't have to worry about backup power, because if the power is off you won't be able to open the door electrically anyway.

    If you can't find suitable relays or SSRs that will operate from 12VDC, then higher voltages will need to be looked at; but let's cross that bridge only if necessary.

    Relay 1 will have to be energized all the time to remain closed, yes (another reason to have an enable/disable switch).
    If it is an SSR, the current used will be minimal (5mA-10mA).
    If it is an electromechanical relay, substantially more current will be required to keep the coil energized.
     
  18. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    Here, have a look at the attached schematic.

    It looks similar to your schematic, but I've made a number of corrections and revisions, along with adding in the receiver and the enable/disable switch. Everything is labeled so it will be easy to find or refer to.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2011
  19. samjesse

    Thread Starter Active Member

    Sep 14, 2008
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    Thank you very much SgtWooki
     
  20. SgtWookie

    Expert

    Jul 17, 2007
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    Don't know if you are interested in building a kit, but you might consider kitsrus K180v3:
    http://www.circuitspecialists.com/pdf/kit_180v3.pdf
    4-channel UHF rolling code receiver with 4 SPDT relays.
    Searching for "K180v3" on Google will find a number of "hits"

    Here is an assembled and tested UHF rolling code 4-channel kit from Carl's Electronics:
    http://www.electronickits.com/remote_control/rf4.htm
    Under $38 for the receiver AND a remote! Extra remotes for ~$13.

    They have a 500mA "wall wart" for $15, but it has adjustable output voltage. You want one that is regulated, and only puts out 12v.

    Marlin P. Jones & Associates has this 12v 2a regulated plug supply for $6:
    http://www.mpja.com/12VDC-2A-Regulated-Plug-Supply-Jasper/productinfo/18776+PS/
    I've always been happy with the stuff I've bought from them.


    I don't know where you are, as you have never added that to your Profile.

    Click on "User CP" up top, then "Edit Your Details" on the next screen.
    Fill in the block to the right of "Location". Country and state or province are just fine.
    Then click the "Save changes" button at the bottom; and that's it.
     
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