AC motor with DC supply

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by asadpasat, Apr 13, 2014.

  1. asadpasat

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 13, 2014
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  2. FuzzballJack

    New Member

    Apr 12, 2014
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    Hija,

    I just wanted to mingle in this conversation. It is difficult to determine what engine this really is. This most likely is not the motor you think it is. ALSO(!) are you sure this is a whole motor? The name they gave the item is strange saying "stator Motor/Rotor". I don't think it is normal to see the coils like that. Just my 2c.

    BUT(!) there are ways to make a AC motor run on DC. But it is complicated.
    Look at this.

    [​IMG]

    You need to make the AC frequencies the motor needs. This can best be achieved by a programmable logic chip.

    I'll be following this thread to see where it goes.
    Fuzz.
     
  3. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    You cannot power it with DC, directly anyway, This is a Fisher & Pakel motor, and it is 3 phase, what the RC crowd call an 'outrunner' the inner coils remain stationary and the outer PM rotor revolves on the outside.
    Practically all W.M's use this type now.
    I have not come across a drive design yet.
    Googling Fisher & Paykel motor controller maybe you can find one.
    They do not use any feedback/commutation elements.
    It is also similar in principle to a ECM motor now used in HVAC systems.
    Max.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2014
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  4. asadpasat

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 13, 2014
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    Interesting. Looks like that It will ne easier to use DC motor, but the main reason I picked this one is the size and because it is outruner. But can you reconnect be some DC motor who's is "thin" or outruner, with good torque ,please? Thanks a lot.
     
  5. asadpasat

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 13, 2014
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    Just by the way, I am thinking of using this motor to run a bike, like you know these kits for ~300 $ which are just DC motor in a wheel.
     
  6. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    This motor runs on high voltage DC source, If you Google the motor there is a Utube video of the different ratings.
    But I would give up the idea of installing it on a bike.
    DC brushed motors do not come in an outrunner config, at least i have never come across anything.
    Max.
     
  7. asadpasat

    Thread Starter New Member

    Apr 13, 2014
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    OK, then what about the ebikes. They are running on DC motor. And some of them are using the outrunner.
     
  8. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
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    They are using a BLDC motor. BLDC stands for, Brush Less DC motor. They are mostly a three phase DC motor, that uses a BLDC controller to make the three DC phases.
     
  9. strantor

    AAC Fanatic!

    Oct 3, 2010
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    I believe this fisher paykel motor IS a BLDC; at least that's what I remember from reading up on them a year or so ago - please excuse me for not doing the research a second time to confirm.

    Is that not a hall effect array mounted at the top right of the first pic, and shown close up in the second pic? I would think that at least one of the many available BLDC control ICs with hall effect feedback should be able to control this thing (with high power transistor interface of course).

    Also there are washing machine motor control ICs designed specifically for controlling these things, but I know nothing about them.
     
  10. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    The difference between a BLDC and 3 phase is in the controller, the motor is virtually identical.
    The principle difference is BLDC ony energises any two windings at a time, (DC motor turned inside out), whereas 3 ph uses a variable frequency, artificially produced 3phase sinusoidal or a pseudo version of it.
    The only IC I have come across is the TDA1085 for Universal motor W.M.'s.
    Max.
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2014
  11. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

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    And the sensorless BLDC is not very good for an EV. Since the ESC doesn't know where the rotor is in reference to the stator. There are chips out there that will run a hall sensored BLDC.
     
  12. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

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    That Ic won't run a BLDC motor though.:)
     
  13. alfacliff

    Well-Known Member

    Dec 13, 2013
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    why not use the entire washing machine chain, from the ac line cord to the motor? the ac coming in is rectified to supply dc to the motor control, just supply dc to the control and work out a speed control input.
     
  14. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
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    I believe the OP needs a motor to propel a bicycle, according to other posts, in some versions the DC supplied is 340v DC from a 240v AC supply.
    Max.
     
  15. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
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    And buy a long extension cord.:D:p:rolleyes::)
     
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