A pulsed electric field emitting device

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by unseensoul, Jul 21, 2013.

  1. unseensoul

    Thread Starter Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    I'm working on a project to create a device which emits pulsed electric fields that will then be used to investigate its benefit in skin disorders. The investigation would consist of placing the device close to the skin area in question and it would then be "bathed" with a pulsed electric field.

    I've read that the simplest way to achieve this is to connect the pulse generator to various electrode plates. But it raised me a lot of questions. How would an electric field be produced between the electrode and the skin? Perhaps I should be asking, how is the electric field emitted from the electrode into the skin? Would the skin (i.e. person) "behave" as the lower plate of a capacitor, thus forming a closed circuit?

    Going back to the circuitry, I reckon the output impedance should be very high as well to avoid unwanted large currents. The skin area needs to be "bathed" uniformly too. How can this be best achieved? Would the shape of the electrodes matter? Could the electrodes be as simple as a metal plate?

    Looking forward to hearing from you.
     
  2. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
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    Read up on capacitance. The field in a capacitor is primarily electric.
     
  3. WBahn

    Moderator

    Mar 31, 2012
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    What is the basis for thinking that a pulsed electric field might be beneficial for treating skin disorders?
     
  4. unseensoul

    Thread Starter Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    Bill_Marsden, I still don't understand how an electrode close to a surface works...
     
  5. unseensoul

    Thread Starter Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    WBahn, skin regeneration, cell mitosis, etc. It's not new actually...
     
  6. DerStrom8

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 20, 2011
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    Would you care to post some actual medical documentation supporting your claims?
     
  7. WBahn

    Moderator

    Mar 31, 2012
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    And the peer-reviewed medical journals that document this are...?
     
  8. WBahn

    Moderator

    Mar 31, 2012
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    Neither is homeopathy, So what?
     
  9. blueroomelectronics

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jul 22, 2007
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    Sounds like quackery.
     
    DerStrom8 likes this.
  10. WBahn

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    Mar 31, 2012
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    Homeopathy. Quackery. Same thing. :rolleyes:
     
  11. unseensoul

    Thread Starter Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    Is this the "The Projects Forum" or the "The Opinions Forum"?
     
  12. unseensoul

    Thread Starter Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    Apart from Bill_Marsden, all the others are filling the database with useless information to this topic. I would appreciate if you could stop thinking about its possible use and be helpful enough to give some lights on what I'm asking.
     
  13. unseensoul

    Thread Starter Member

    Dec 13, 2008
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    WBahn, google will help you better than no one looking for peer-reviewed medical journals. Have you heard of pulsed electromagnetic field therapy? There's an interesting section on Wikipedia stating "There are several electrical stimulation therapy devices, approved by the FDA, that are widely available to patients for use. These devices provide an additive solution that aid in bone growth repair and depression."

    If the FDA has approved such devices what else more do you need to try to disprove its advantages? What's your point actually? I would appreciate if you could help me with my queries instead.
     
  14. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
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    Some if not all of the devices just mentioned employ direct contact and run currents directly through the patient. TENS and CES are indeed approved as "safe and effective". You've asked about a field, such as that from a cellphone by the head or from living by a buzzing powerline tower.

    If you're convinced that a field has therapeutic use, point us to the references that you would like to follow. It's pointless to work on a circuit if you cannot specify the most trivial details such as field strength, frequency of modulation, and so on. If you want to replicate published results, cite them.

    If you want to drive a magnetic field into flesh, I think the best way would be a solenoid coil perpendicular to the skin surface. With limbs, you MIGHT be able to place a magnetically conductive material (iron plate) opposite the magnet to provide a better return path for the field lines. This would help intensify the field deeper into and across the tissue. Otherwise there is no good return path and the magnetic field will be much stronger at the skin only.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  15. DerStrom8

    Well-Known Member

    Feb 20, 2011
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    My request for legitimate medical documentation is far from useless. And if I were you I'd watch that attitude. You're only going to get yourself banned if you keep up this rude and cocky tone. None of us are required to help you, so you should be thankful for what you get. If you're just going to shoot down any comments from the members here, then you're in the wrong place and should go find another forum. However, if you're willing to listen to what our respected members here have to say, you'll get your answers once you provide enough information.

    Matt
     
    shortbus likes this.
  16. WBahn

    Moderator

    Mar 31, 2012
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    The fact that you don't seem to have any idea what kind of field strength or pulse rate or pulse profile you are trying to create is a strong indicator that you are jjust putting together a snake oil concoction.
     
    DerStrom8 likes this.
  17. DickCappels

    Moderator

    Aug 21, 2008
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    I participate in this forumto help people find answers questions about electronics I don't necessarily know that much about medicine and healing, so I will only address the questions you asked (rather than bringing in my own biases).

    As Per Bill Marsden's post, if you read a little bit about capacitors, you will get a better understanding the concept of an electric field.

    The electric filed can be expressed as the difference in voltages between two electrodes divided by the distance between the electrodes.

    The way you can produce an electric field between a person's skin and an electrode is to connect a voltage source between the person's body and a conductive plate placed some distance from the skin. You need to have an idea of the field gradient desired and the frequency.

    A 9 volt transistor radio battery connected between the user's body and a conductive plate 1 cm away will produce a field strength of 900 volts per meter. Its the voltage divided by the distance between the electrodes (the skin is one electrode).

    If you use DC, you will only have current flow when the battery is first connected. If you use AC, then the current is proportional to frequency and and the area of the electrodes.

    You need to learn more about what kind of field you need and go from there.
     
  18. new voodoo

    New Member

    Jul 25, 2013
    5
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    sounds like 1898.
    Ive always thought it would be cool to collect those old pre-government-purview "electric medical" devices like the ones with the gas exciters or the static generators.
    I wouldnt actually treat anything with them though..
     
  19. bathtechie

    New Member

    May 11, 2013
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    There is plenty of documentation of the beneficial use of electromagnetic fields in medical research and practice.
     
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