A possible solution for electric cars

Discussion in 'General Science' started by beenthere, Nov 8, 2009.

  1. beenthere

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  2. studiot

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  3. Wendy

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    I like it.

    If you could treat your batteries somewhat like they are currently going with propane gas cylinders, you change the whole unit, it would eliminate one of the big problems with electrics and hybrids, that is, after 5 to 10 years you've got to buy another $5K to $10K in batteries. This is not an attractive option. Instead, you buy what is a reconditioned unit, where the costs for referbishing the batteries is spread over time.
     
  4. shortbus

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    Just my opinion, but until they find a way to charge the "Road Use Tax" on alternate power vehicles, theres not going to be much real progress.

    The average fuel/road use tax in the USA is $0.508 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_tax#United_States They aren't going to allow much more than the "experiments" that are going on now, without getting the tax money.

    Cary
     
  5. beenthere

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    No question about paying for the pavement. The redox battery does avoid the problem of vastly expanding the national power grid to let all those cars recharge every night.
     
  6. Wendy

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    Yeah, and any system that exchanges or recharges the batteries at a station will allow taxes.
     
  7. thatoneguy

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    The problem is dividing out which power was used for vehicle charging, and which was used for household.

    Of the few methods that pop into my head quickly, I can see a thread for each here in the future on how to get around them. :eek:

    Sort of like the "dyed diesel" for off-road use, they'd need to come up with a way to sell High Voltage DC on a separate meter, or something that couldn't be readily used by anything other than charging the car.
     
  8. Wendy

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    If it is a car I don't see it being a big problem overall, maybe some people pay that shouldn't, but it would be a really small minority. The key statement was "recharges at a station", I wasn't referring to a box at your home, but a station similar to what exists for gas.

    If your pulling a battery for reconditioning, or pouring a liquid for replacement, out of the vehicle I doubt there will be any confusion.

    I remember seeing farmers run their trucks off propane straight from their tanks for ranches. It was known and accepted that some people one the roads that shouldn't, just like we knew if they got busted they would pay in other ways.
     
  9. bertus

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  10. wr8y

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    Collecting taxes is easy ... what is hard is this: With, say, 20 million electric cars on the road - where do we get all the electricity to power them?

    We could fire up more diesel generating plants (but what is the point there?)

    Or we could fire up more coal plants (not so sure they are all that clean).

    Or we could build more nuke plants (but the left wont allow THAT, either).



    Again, where will all of this "clean" :rolleyes: electricity come from?
     
  11. studiot

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    Can't see why taxes would be a problem in the UK. Every vehicle has to have a working mileometer and be tested annually.

    The testing station has to record the mileometer reading and lodge the result (amongst other data) with the Ministry.

    So it would be kid's stuff to work out a mileage tax.
     
  12. Wendy

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    Actually, lots of places, but that isn't the point. My impression is the ICE engine is so inefficient that the power plant pales that in comparison. We spend a fair amount of time and money in Dallas county doing emissions tests for cars, which would be moot (that would then move over to the power plants).

    The tech base for power plants will be expanding over time, I don't see car's being improved that much running off gas.
     
  13. wr8y

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    No, not lots of places, electricity does not "grow on trees"... care to elaborate? What "lots of places" do you refer to?

    Second, it is very much the point - or at least MY point.

    Again, WHERE are you going to get the energy for all of that electricity?

    You have three major choices: coal, oil and nuclear.

    You have one minor choice: solar - which is just too expensive. (Try pricing solar cells, I mean an array big enough to recharge a car.)

    (I have no argument about the inefficiency of the ICE. But the CONVENIENCE of the ICE is worth a lot: easy refueling, instant startup, etc.)
     
  14. thatoneguy

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    Just hook an alternator to the wheels. Electricity from the alternator doesn't take any power and it is free! </sarcasm>
     
  15. JDT

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    I'm glad a few people have mentioned "where will we get the electricity from".

    Even if we invent the perfect battery, to get the same range as we currently get from a tank of fuel and assuming that your electric car is charging all night (say 7 hours) the electrical supply to the average house is not sufficient to supply the power.

    So we not only do we need a lot more power stations (almost certainly nuclear) but we will need an uprated electrical infrastructure (pylons, street wiring, etc.) to make it happen.

    It will have to happen, if we want to maintain our current lifestyle. We are now past "peak oil" so we need to find another fuel.
     
  16. Wendy

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    Actually, you left the gamut off, solar, wind, geothermal (while currently local, this one can be done anywhere with work), tidal, nuclear (while there is only fission at the moment, fission could become practical, and there are other fission technologies in the wings). I said lots, I would define the above as such. Don't assume technology will remain static, there is a lot of good R&D being done, such as the geothermal angle. I've seen several shows showing deep holes being drilled to tap into the earths heat. On the nuclear front new licenses are being granted, and there are several techs other than what is currently being used trying to be released.
     
  17. ELECTRONERD

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    While electricity doesn't grow on trees, neither does money! We could use solar panels, wind generators, and geothermic energy to generate electricity to power the electric cars but whose going to pay for it? The cost of implementing all that is hurrendous.

    Austin
     
  18. Wendy

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    DeMolay has something called Government Day once a year, where they do mock legislation. They were talking about taxes, and most of those kids didn't have a clue what we pay in taxes, income tax (33%, if you're lucky), sales tax, gasoline tax, and more. We also pay all of the utilities too. Whose going to pay for it? Same people who are already paying for it, and have paid for it.
     
  19. ELECTRONERD

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    Well Bill taxes don't solve everything, and whatever happened to "no taxation without represenation"? The government is pumping all this money out of the blue to fund a multitude of activities, which will lead to inflation. That was a common technique used by the Germans on our economy during WWII, BTW.
     
  20. thatoneguy

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    <off topic>
    We are represented, by the people we elect to represent our views.

    Send a letter to your congressman to stop racking up the bills and debt.

    If he/she doesn't, vote them out the next chance you get.
     
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