A dark secret about my Indian Teachers.

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by lg00111@yahoo.co.uk, Apr 22, 2008.

  1. lg00111@yahoo.co.uk

    Thread Starter Guest

    To all those peoples including the owner of this website, I as student of Diploma in Electronics and Communication engineering want to state that my Diploma teachers are copying materials from this site and writing to their books by putting their own name and title without giving any bibliography to this website...which I discovered accidentally now.

    And the purpose of those teachers for doing this is to just make students to join his home coaching classes by paying fees.............but these teachers are not good in their subjects. They have not explained anything by themselves in this book.

    So I strongly want to request to the owner of this website to make a rule to force those teachers to mention the source of their material if they copy the material from this website of their books.................and if they fail to do so then upon complaining here these teachers and book publishers should be heavily fined.

    I am saying all these because teacher are using the material from this website not for information purpose but as a source of income and to fool the students and to make fake reputations. The main work these teachers do in college is to give assignments to students and nothing more..........


    I WANT TO REQUEST YOU TO FORCE THESE AUTHOR AND PUBLISHERS TO GIVE BIBLIOGRAPHY OF THIS WEBSITE ON THEIR BOOKS OTHERWISE FINE THEM.
     
  2. recca02

    Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    1,211
    0
    Such matters must be discussed over the PM with the Admin.

    I hope subject of discussion be considered and this thread be removed from public view(or deleted). We don't want any harm to reputation of any college or professor.

    Its really a shame that some professors in India aren't sincere in their work, but same is the case with any government official.
     
  3. lg00111@yahoo.co.uk

    Thread Starter Guest

    Such matters must be discussed over the PM with the Admin.

    WHAT IS PM HERE............

    by the way very much thanks for this quickest reply........
     
  4. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    144
    In the interests of not directly accusing people in public with any allegations of wrong-doing, I have taken the liberty to remove any personal information from the OP. I have retained this information on a private area of the site.

    Let me have a look at what you are saying and I will post back shortly with more detailed comments.

    Dave
     
  5. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    144
    PM is Private Message. You will need to create a user account in order to use the feature.

    Dave
     
  6. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    144
    Firstly I must state that I cannot offer the definitive answer to the questions raised in the OP. What I say here is my own inferral and may not be an accurate assessment as regards the full LIEC and AAC projects. Secondly I must also state that I do not assume any one is guilty or innocent - the following is merely a personal commentary on the issues raised.

    The material in the e-book is covered under the Design Sciences License (DSL) which allows for copying and distribution under section 3 of the license. In particular:

    Therefore people are free to use and distribute the material, provided that the full copyright notice is distributed accordingly. There should also be a copy of the DSL.

    Furthermore, there are no financial restrictions on the use of the work, provided it adheres to the DSL conditions:

    Finally we must also note the conditions imposed by the DSL on modifications to the work to create derivative works:

    Therefore, people are able to copy, modify, redistribute and charge for use of the material, provided the original source is not misrepresented. Without seeing this work or any of the copyright distribution notices, it would be wrong of me to make any comments as to what is gestured to in the OP.

    I will alert the e-book co-ordinator for his comments on this. I will add further comments of my own accordingly.

    Dave
     
  7. Dcrunkilton

    E-book Co-ordinator

    Jul 31, 2004
    416
    11
    This academic misconduct of not giving credit to original authors is normally handled by the administration of the school to whom you should report the details. They have enforcement authority at the school. We do not.

    Example(1):
    A graduate student at a state university in the US discovered that engineering Masters Degree candidates had copied their theses from previously published masters theses. While reading theses in the library, he found identical theses (except for publication date) by different authors. He reported this to the dean of the engineering department, and other administrators. An engineering professor involved with these masters candidates had to resign.

    Example{2):
    Many years ago at a technical college in the US, the assistant dean of instruction was lecturing us new instructors on what we could legally reprint, and how much, of published works for student handouts. He told us that the reason he was an expert in this matter was that in an earlier capacity as an english instructor, he had been reported to the college administration by a student for reprinting more than was allowed by copyright law in the US.

    If there is an actual publishing company for the book, you might point out to them the true origin of the work.

    Example(3):
    An inexperienced engineer copied a circuit designed by a well known experienced engineer and published it as his own work in "Electronic Design" , or possibly "EDN". This was followed a month later by a "letter to the editor" pointing out the true orgin of the work.

    Dennis






    .
     
  8. lg00111@yahoo.co.uk

    Thread Starter Guest

    Thanks everybody for their kind attention to this information...........now I am here going to explain the clear purpose of this issue.......

    1. Firstly this website is for professionals in electronics and most of the material here to for information purposes and not any layman can become master in electronics by just reading website without such discussions.

    2. The teacher cum author of that book is M Tech and a professor, that's why he has the license to write the book for Diploma students. But license does never mean to say that you copy the material from another sources viz internet or online books and without explaining them in any further detail just put to their books. Any person can do this and write the book with their name in that way then why only qualified person are allowed to write the book. Every time we buy the book we see the qualification of author then whats the meaning of putting his M Tech qualification on the book, is that mean he is a intelligent writer and that is his intelligence to copy the material from internet.

    3. I live in a small town where Diploma book are available only in two book shops and in both the book shops only this book for that particular subject is available. Even at my college book store only this book available and students don't have any other options to read except from library. But this is a final semester subject so students cant get books from library after finishing three years having supply and thus they become dependent of such books.

    4. I can read and understand all good publisher books viz Tata Mech Graw Hill, Pearson, John Willy & Sons, Estern Economy Edition, etc.I know how a good book written and organized. But during my Diploma I was unable to understand this book and hence got supply two times in this subject.The reason for supply was that after finishing my 3 years having supply I was not able to access the library books and no others good books according to my syllabus was available in the college book store and even in my town. I have finished my Diploma in 2007 and in the age of 18 I got the job of a computer teacher for classes 6th to 12th, now I have passed this subject by reading required material from John willy & Sons book named Understanding Microwaves.

    5. So what I further mean to say that in any small town if good books are not available in college book store or small market then why such fakes books are sold without any other option except MBD, IPH sample papers. They are trying to capture the market at this lower but vast level, where most students don't have other option except limited library. And that why these teachers write fake books to make lot of money. If you read that book then you will see that they have explained nothing in that books by themselves and all the material in that book is just for information purpose only not to teach a layman.

    6. I know everybody here has the write to copy the material from this website but I am putting this matter here to bring in the notice of site members that how peoples are using information from here or there to make money and fool others especially students.

    7. That book is not being publishing just as a normal book but with the title as Microwave and Radar Engineering book for 6th Semester Diploma Students, Strictly following the syllabus prescribed by PSEB.

    8. Actually Diploma level higher than 12th but lower than B-tech 3year. Thats why not a single good author or publishers are dedicating their books to these students and hence such teacher are taking benefits of the situation.

    9. Lastly I would like to say that I am not going to harm those teachers or publisher but if every student at Diploma level thinks in such a way and avoid to buy such fake books then these books will automatically get vanished from market, and thats why I have put this issue to public and spread the dark secret of criminal teachers. In my opinion cramming is crime and these books are making students to do lots of cramming instead of understanding.

    Any further replies and information are welcome.
     
  9. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    144
    Thanks for the additional information, putting your issue in context.

    Firstly, I will empathise with you about the cost of learning materials. As someone who was once a university student with little money, the cost of purchasing learning materials can often be beyond the realms of any meagre income you may get. Perhaps this experience is why I try my best to help keep AAC going - I believe knowledge is free, and this site does all it can to ensure that we provide knowledge and help where possible on the subject of electronics regardless of ability to pay. This is a personal sentiment and I say this solely as a personal opinion.

    Secondly, we have already established that people are free use the information here at AAC, I quote previously: to copy, modify, redistribute and charge for use of the material, provided the original source is not misrepresented. Provided the material is not misrepresented then as far as we are concerned there is no issue. If someone wishes to charge for usage of the material, then that is an issue in itself (particularly from a moral point of view as you describe in your own situation), but is not necessarily wrong. Rest assured that the original information will still be available free of charge and free to access here at AAC and at ibiblio.

    Thirdly, practices such as using the information in the e-book can raise other questions of judgement. My personal opinion (and this may differ from the official line of other AAC admins or people involved in the LIEC project), is that I question the abilities of people who use the work solely as is, and add their minor contributions stamping their name on it for credit. As long as they adhere to the DSL then there is no legal (and possibly moral) issue, but I would expect the "academic elite" to be able to add their own original contribution to knowledge and learning. That said, I have seen some fantastic uses of this work as a template to write more specialist works on electronics related subjects, including books, commercial websites etc. I hope this continues.

    So in accordance with the information provided above by both Dennis and myself, there are several points I will make:

    1. Is the work taken directly as is from the LIEC project (the AAC e-book)?

    2. Is appropriate credit given to the original author in accordance with the DSL? (We have a copy of the DSL here).

    If the answer to Q1 is yes and the answer to Q2 is no, then as Dennis says this issue should be raised with either the Academic Institution which whom the academic is registered/affiliated, or with the publisher of the text. These institutions are duty bound to address any breaches of copyright (exactly as they would do with a student who plagiarised work from the Internet). It is my inferral that the responsibility lies with these institutions and not with AAC or the LIEC project at ibiblio.

    If the answers to Q1 and Q2 are any different from the above, then the authors have acted accordingly with the requirements of the DSL, should they have used the material.

    Furthermore, we should also be careful about describing anything here as "crimes", particularly in the complex field of copyright law. To you they may be moral crimes (you are free to have an opinion on that), but in the eyes of the law these don't necessarily translate into actual crimes.

    A final point I will make is that the more we make people (student, hobbyists and the like) aware of this project (AAC and LIEC), the less benefit there is in people charging for usage of this material and the more people can benefit.

    Comments welcome.

    Dave
     
  10. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,764
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    In other words, spread the word, and it will be free.
     
  11. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    144
    Pretty much yes, however it will always be free. Just the more who know about it, them more people it will benefit.

    Dave
     
  12. recca02

    Senior Member

    Apr 2, 2007
    1,211
    0
    I feel mass distribution of such works for profit is morally incorrect and should have some legal bindings.
    Atleast if possible a letter should be sent as a friendly reminder for mention of site as reference. But for this it must be confirmed that there was actually so copying of the the work.
     
  13. Dave

    Retired Moderator

    Nov 17, 2003
    6,960
    144
    On a moral level, I can agree somewhat with your sentiments, recca. However the work is released under the conditions of the DSL which permits such acts provided they adhere to the conditions of that license. Provided the conditions of the license are met, there are no legal wrong-doings.

    Agreed, particularly the issue of clarifying that work was actually "copied", or more accurately, "used" from the work. However, as Dennis stated previously, if there is academic misconduct this is to be dealt with by the institution (or publishers) to whom these people are accountable.

    Dave
     
  14. lg00111@yahoo.co.uk

    Thread Starter Guest

    Thanks for replies........

    Now I am putting more light upon my thoughts and opinions from all your replies........

    You are doing great job by providing information at free of cost to everybody around the world.
    And after my informing about the commercial use of information for making profit you keep your mind positive which is the example of big heart. So AAC is doing very great to spreading the information to all electronics aspirants free of cost also the spreading about this website is also great which directly provides the up to date material to students.

    And I never mean to say that Tata MCGraw Hill type publisher are writing more accurate or good books than your material. Actually that (accused) author has selected some topic from your books and put them to his book and then he selected topics from other web pages and put that in his book which in turn does not seems that book is talking with the reader in a flow like other good publisher books as you may have observed that good publisher and author books looks like talking to the reader.. And AAC books are also good and looks like talking to reader if we read them from begin to end. This is my personal experience by reading large number of education and interest specific books and that's why I always wanted to have all my educations books having such standard to keep the reading in flow, but alas at diploma level not single books looks like that hence I read B-Tech level book for my Diploma in many subjects which interests me more than usual.

    Actually when we read an organized book written by single author like your books then the problem for some people is to remember full book what they have read for examination. But when the book is composed of information provided by large number of authors without any flow then the biggest problem for student is to understand the book that what the author wants to say because their is not a single author but too many author each having his own view points and experience and hence the material is presented in too much unorganized way and without any flow. Which in turn convert the book to information material not a study material like a newspaper.

    Fairly speaking suppose that their are some people who took good books from library and photostat them and put them on net for public doing harm to the loyalty of those author and publisher but side by side needed people who don't have other options in nearby market of those books got benefits. I am not fully against such piracy because it is not at commercial level. But suppose some people took Holy books from any religion and photostat them and edit their text to corrupt the meaning and then upload that book on the net for public which trigger wars between large populations, then how does it feels? And here I am against such piracy. But in both the cases the person who is doing this is called Hacker. Now the topic we are discussing here does not reveal that that author is also a Hacker ? He is hacking information from lots of sources (where copyright law allows him) and then using that information for commercial purposes in a very rubbish way that every layman face the first difficulty to understand that book material before trying to remember the material for examination especially students.

    Here I am not trying to say that legal action must be taken against that author but trying to discuss the matter at moral cum logical way, that what category should be given to such author when normal non-commercial piracy criminal are sent to jail for pirating the copyrighted books. Are not these authors are more intelligent then those pirates and making lots of money then other pirates. Are not they are developing non-copyright pirate market. And how much the difference between your big heart thinking and their thinking. Think about it.

    Further replies and suggestions are welcomes...............
     
  15. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,764
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    Open source sources, such as this site, are going to be more common in time. There is a Darwinian method to it, the good ones survive over time, and thrive. I'm curious if and when this site will be mirrored, which I do expect to happen eventually.

    Just spread the word about this site. If your professors acknowledge their sources it isn't a big deal, and if word gets out they'll either have to or someone else will.

    Another thing I suspect will happen is when the book is finished it probably will be published. Much as I like the internet I still like the feel of a book. If they ever make a gameboy that I can download ebooks into I might change, but for now...
     
  16. kaosad

    Member

    Apr 14, 2008
    19
    0
    Do students have other alternative choice of references? If yes, lead them here. I found the books given here are clear and well-written.
     
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