50, 60 hertz?

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by EdwardA, Aug 11, 2015.

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  1. EdwardA

    Thread Starter New Member

    Aug 11, 2015
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    I've done some preliminary research and have not found a real answer.

    I'm purchasing power inverters for a project. I'm see typically 50 hz for "pure" sine wave inverters, and 60 hz for "modified" sine wave inverters.

    The US power grid is 60 hz. So then is it modified or pure.

    There's lots of sales related text stating various electronics must or should have pure sine wave, but I've run my computer tower on modified sine wave and batter chargers too. My computer's power supply states 60 hz. and runs fine on a cheap 700 watt modified sine wave inverter.

    So is 50 hertz pure sine wave and 60 hertz, modified, or like in the US power grid, is 60hz pure sine or modified sine?

    Pure sine wave inverters are 3 times the cost. I have to wonder if this is mostly a sales gimmick.

    .
     
  2. #12

    Expert

    Nov 30, 2010
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    The frequency has nothing to do with what kind of sine wave because coal fired power plants and nuclear power plants do not use inverters. They make sine waves with magnetism and coils.

    What will run on a modified sine wave seems to be in the realm of advertising, not available facts.
    Maybe the next helper will know the difference.
     
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  3. MikeML

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    No, not a gimmick.

    USA (60Hz) and Eur (50Hz) line voltage is (almost) a pure sine wave.

    Cheap, crappy, Chinese inverters are mostly a square wave output. Will they run your PC switching power supply? maybe.
     
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  4. crutschow

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    Some electronics will run on other than a pure sinewave, others don't.
    Ones that don't may announce that by failing. It's up to you if you want to take that chance.
    The quasi-sinewave devices that have a peak to RMS output of 1.4, similar to a sinewave, would be the type most likely to work with most electronics, but I don't know that the inverter manufacturer states that information.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
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  5. EdwardA

    Thread Starter New Member

    Aug 11, 2015
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    I'm not talking about "Cheap, crappy, Chinese inverters", I"m talking about high dollar, name brand inverters.

    ...or at least what I consider expensive. Aims, Cotek, Magnum....

    An example the Aims 5000 watt, 48 volt modified is just under $600, but their pure sine version is $1300.

    I don't think that's cheap, but you can find more expensive brands. I've seen lots of the cheap ones on ebay and they're much less costly. I won't buy those.

    I have run both my computer tower and Dewalt battery chargers on modified sine, (on a Schumacher 700 watt modified sine, fairly inexpensive) without any issues. So I have to wonder how much is hype and how much is true.

    The US runs on 60 hz, is it pure sine?
    .
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2015
  6. Alec_t

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    See post #3.
     
  7. EdwardA

    Thread Starter New Member

    Aug 11, 2015
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    "Almost" pure sine? That's not an answer that I can understand.

    I'd actually like some real data, although I know that may not be possible.
    Right now I'm not seeing the actual data, but know what I've run some of my electronics on.
     
  8. #12

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    The, "almost" is a modifier calculated to avoid nit-pickers on the internet. If the power line sine waves are 1% off perfect, it's a bad day for them.
     
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  9. EdwardA

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    Aug 11, 2015
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    +/- 1% is something I can understand, a slight variance. Thanks!

    I have run my tower, 600watt power supply intel i7 quadcore (though it pulls much less after start), on that little Shumacher 700 watt modified sine inverter. No issues. I have to wonder if it's just a big sales tactic, to get people to spend more.
     
  10. Reloadron

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    Jan 15, 2015
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    When purchasing an inverter you purchase with the intended load in mind. Modified Sine versus Pure or True Sine is not any sort of gimmick. As Mike pointed out even with something as simple as a computer PSU some run fine on a modified sine wave and some simply won't run and I have seen a few run for a few min and shut down. How about inverters used in applications that have AC motors involved? MSW inverters cost less than TSW inverters because a MSW is easier to make. The inverter application determines whether a MSW or TSW is needed.

    Ron
     
  11. AnalogKid

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    The intent of almost all worldwide power grids is a pure, true sine wave, generated at it native frequency (as opposed to something coming out of a high frequency switching inverter), because harmonics are expensive to produce and distribute. Instantaneous and long-term distortions creep in when different kinds of loads are attached to the grid in your area, but it is a sine wave straight out of the generator.

    ak
     
  12. EdwardA

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    Aug 11, 2015
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    That's what lots of people say, but I actually tried it and had no problems. Did you actually try it and find some appliances that didn't work, or are you just repeating what you've been told.

    Literally, which appliances did you try, that wouldn't run?

    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I hear over and over from people that didn't find out for themselves. It's just what everybody else says.
     
  13. MaxHeadRoom

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    In N.A. most power is generated 3phase AC and distributed this way, in my case where I live, because of the distances it is converted to DC to avoid losses it is converted to AC 60Hz for local distribution, I have never seen any evidence, by instrument or 'scope etc that it is not a pure sine wave.
    One added benefit is lightning strikes on the power lines do not come through to the consumer like it does on AC distribution.
    Max.
     
  14. #12

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    Sir, I think you just insulted at least a dozen people. You are on a peer reviewed electronics site with members holding BSEE degrees and above, all over the planet. We have nothing to sell you, we aren't asking for your money, and you doubt our veracity.

    You are welcome to ask Google.
     
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  15. EdwardA

    Thread Starter New Member

    Aug 11, 2015
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    Ok, no answer and I'll give up. I'll say though, my dad was one of the most highly regarded airplane building in the history of the world. They called him the "wizard of airplane design". You can goodle that and find him. He was an 8th grade dropout and the most important thing he taught me was not to make assumptions. So I don't and I don't listen to people that do.

    ...but I'll quit, here.
     
  16. Reloadron

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    Moderator note: Personal attack removed.

    Thank You & Have a Lovely Day
    Ron
     
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  17. ErnieM

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    Moderator note: Language taking the thread astray deleted.
     
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  18. #12

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    Moderator note: Complaint about member, justified or not, removed.
     
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  19. AnalogKid

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    Moderator note: Language critical of a member removed.
     
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  20. DickCappels

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    This thread has ran far off course and had degenerated to unkind words being written, and it has been locked.

    If any participant wishes to continue the discussion, please start a new thread and please refrain to referring from being critical of other members.
     
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