$25 worth of CMOS 4000 series IC's

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by tracecom, Nov 25, 2011.

  1. tracecom

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
    3,869
    1,393
    I plan to order a selection of CMOS logic ic's for experimentation. I don't have a specific project in mind, and plan to spend about $25, which looks like it will buy about 50 pieces. What should I buy and how many of each one?

    Thanks.
     
  2. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
    12,446
    3,362
    I would not go this route, but then my needs and experience could be different from yours. There are just too many components to choose: gates, flip-flops, counters, monostables, decoders etc.

    I would begin by choosing a project first and just getting the ones you need.
    If you are going to build circuits with discrete logic then I would get:

    (5) 2-INPUT AND
    (5) 2-INPUT NAND
    (5) 2-INPUT OR
    (5) 2-INPUT NOR
    (5) HEX INVERTERS

    (If you need part numbers I can look them up for you.)

    Then just get the rest as required. Buy at least 1 extra for spares.
    If you plan on doing much experimentation, then 5 to 10 pieces as spares is good enough for me (depending on price). This way you don't have to wait for parts to come in when you do need them.

    Make sure you keep the ICs stored in the anti-static bags that the parts came in. If you live where the humidity can be high (which is just about everywhere), keep all the bags in a tight plastic bag or container with the little bags of silica gel in with the parts.

    PS: With the advent of low cost, low pin count MCUs, the need for digital logic chips has been reduced substantially. I would highly recommend learning to program MCUs if you have not yet done so.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2011
    tracecom likes this.
  3. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    Generally I buy them as I need them, there are too many flavors. A few stand out though, the 4017, 4026, 4013, etc.

    The main thing to have is a good reference to find what you are looking for.

    I use this one a lot...

    http://users.otenet.gr/~athsam/database.htm
     
    tracecom and elec_mech like this.
  4. jimkeith

    Active Member

    Oct 26, 2011
    539
    99
    tracecom likes this.
  5. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    You are better off going with 74HC devices.
     
  6. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    You can actually make all of those gates using either diodes and or transistors.

    Much cheaper if only one gate is required. You can buy 1 cent diodes and 3 cent transistors now.

    You can use a NAND in multiples to make any of the 7 logic gates too.
     
  7. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    So cheap now in fact that, I think that in the case that one is required -- you can just emulate the chip in software.

    Emulate decoders, counters etc ...
     
  8. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    Emulating those in software on a PIC is dead easy. So, you will always be able to get them.

    The low-end PIC16Fs can be had now for just over one-dollar in low volume. Price will continue to drop on some of them.
     
  9. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    I don't use a simulator, I do most of it in my head, and a pocket calculator. I do build more circuits than most, but protoboards allow for ultimate reusability.

    CMOS has specs to be envied by other logic families too, extremely low current, wide voltage range. Only their drive is lacking, but even then when not loaded they go rail to rail.

    Simulators are not reality either, they occasionally get it wrong.
     
  10. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    You misunderstand me friend. I mean an actual REAL drop in replacement.

    Not pin for pin though.
     
  11. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    Tell me that you can no longer buy a 4017, 4026, 4013, etc. and I can supply you with a software-based one.
     
  12. Wendy

    Moderator

    Mar 24, 2008
    20,766
    2,536
    The day that happens some small chip maker will gear up their lithographic machines.

    We are not too far from fabricating chips on the home level with several different methods. The one I'm thinking of is organic transistors and printers.
     
  13. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    You won't of course get the same speed. Like the CD4017 is good for many MHz of speed. If I were to emulate this in software for a RISC MCU running @5MIPS, then you'd be getting a few 100KHz of throughput.
     
  14. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    Is that right? Geez.

    Who would have ever thought.
     
  15. elec_mech

    Senior Member

    Nov 12, 2008
    1,513
    193
    tracecom,

    It really depends on what you're looking to do. I just took the shotgun approach when I ordered parts for a project and bought just about one of every CMOS IC the supplier listed on their website, more for those I knew I'd using. You certainly don't need to go that route. I'd order based on what you think you might get into in the near future, project-wise. Here are my recommendations based on the types of projects I've encountered and found interesting:

    4013 - D-flip flop, good for a latching toggle switch (T-flip flop) or for use as part of Bill's 1-second clock circuit that I find myself using a lot, the link to which I don't have handy at the moment.

    4017 - chaser LED IC, great for a lot of LED projects

    4510 and 4511 - good for presettable up or down counters and 7-segment displays

    40110 - combines function of 4510 and 4511 onto one IC without the preset function

    4060 - Also used as part of Bill's 1-second clock

    4066 - analog switch, haven't used this one yet but plan to in the near future, good to use digital logic switch to turn something on or off somewhat like a relay.

    4093 - NAND gate Schmitt trigger - excellent for use as a switch debouncer with 0.1uF cap and 10kΩ resistor, can also be used as a standard NAND gate as far as I know

    Some basic logic ICs would be good too, some AND, OR, NOR, XOR, inverter, and buffer might be good such as 4001, 4009, 4010, 4070, 4071, 4081, 40106.

    Hope this helps.
     
    tracecom likes this.
  16. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    4066 is an analog switch that one might use to switch an audio or video signal. Not as a gen purpose switch for like a relay dude.

    4066 is useful still. There are many of too, so very cheap.

    I know that Farnel has like a few K of them that you'd probably get for like 3-cents each.
     
  17. thatoneguy

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2009
    6,357
    718
    4066 Analog Switch
    and:
    Analog multiplexers 1 of 8 or a chip with 2 1 of 4 analog multiplexers, forgot the darn numbers.

    LOTS of Inverters, most of them Schmidt Trigger inputs, but some without.

    A few schmidt trigger buffers (non-inverting)

    NAND gates and the other basics, probably 8 each, though AND and OR with inverters will be used the most.

    4060 Oscillator w/Counter IC - Creates a clock or a PRNG in a single IC.

    Tristate output shfit registers. 74HC595 IIRC too. (these become useful when you inevitability get into uC programming)

    Then look into a PICKit 2 w/Low Pin Count Demo Board for $50, MCU Programming + External logic = best of both worlds, EXTREMELY cool projects using a mix of uC and logic over what you could do with logic alone, or a uC alone.
     
    tracecom likes this.
  18. atferrari

    AAC Fanatic!

    Jan 6, 2004
    2,648
    764
    When I finally I had the money for that, I did more or less the same. At that time I was buying on the counter. Later Internet came and things were different.

    Make sure you have all the basic gates and combinations. Also make sure you order the CD4094 (serial to parallel converter). I found myself using it many many times. And the 4015 (right now in a just finished design, waiting for its PCB).

    The good thing with that family is that your supply (Vdd) can range from 5 to 15 V. Not bad eh?

    The idea of replacing some of these chips with a small micro is older than many are aware of. (Look in the very first application notes of Microchip).

    Not even worth discussing about them. Have to see yet an application like that.

    In fact, what you do, many times, is replacing that functionality by a small piece of code somewhere in your program to provide what the gate could have offered.
     
    tracecom likes this.
  19. tracecom

    Thread Starter AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
    3,869
    1,393
    Thanks to all who provided input on this. I had no idea how many different 4000 series IC's there were. (Now, I have found there are about 150 different parts.)

    I have made a list of everything recommended here and I have ordered a (used) book of 50 CMOS IC projects. When I get that book, I will finish my order list, and between the two sources (AAC and the book) should have a good starter collection.
     
  20. Yako

    New Member

    Nov 24, 2011
    245
    2
    You would never get even near on-par speed. This is the problem. Like, with a PIC μC running at 1MIPS, one direct port write takes up 1μS of time to execute.

    We would be making counters that should be capable of being run at 40MHz run at 40KHz.
     
Loading...