1 inch wire coils on a CD

Discussion in 'The Projects Forum' started by Transcendamental, Sep 28, 2013.

  1. Transcendamental

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 28, 2013
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    Hey everyone!

    I am developing a type of magnetic generator that relies of the conversion of solar energy into electricity, that will in turn power a high torque, low RPM motor. This motor will turn a Rotor (old CD's for now) that has 12 N42 1"x1/4"x1/8" Neo magnets (magnetized lengthwise) on it's surface. This Rotor will
    have a 2mm gap between itself and the Stator. The Stator will have 10 1-inch copper magnet wire coils, of a 1/4 inch thickness of it's surface. The Stator will then be sandwiched between a second Rotor of the same design.
    This configuration will be stacked upon one another to form 7 layers of 2 rotors and 1 Stator. How this is different from normal PM generators, is that each successive rotor will turn 25%-50% faster than the one below it, following a specific gear ratio of my own design. The Rotors and Stators will be "threaded" by a 1/2" thick aluminum rod. This rod will have 1" washers with weld points every 1 1/2" or so. The rod will have axially magnetized ring magnets (1 1/4") secured to the washers that will support each Rotor, which will also have lubricated rings magnets of the same type secured to the bottom.

    My questions are ultimately, with the information I have provided so far, how do I determine

    1st: What Gauge of wire do I use? (Not worried so much about the current generated, as long as it's more than the 12V DC 500 mA used to run the solar motor.)

    2nd: How many turns per coil? In order to get it into the approximate diameter of 1 inch by 1/4 inch thickness.

    and 3rd: What kind of configuration should I use when combining the wires (eg. Delta, Star; Single Phase, 2-Phase, 3-Phase, etc...)

    This is my first time consulting a forum for information, because Google is usually my best friend, lol! I just feel that it would be great to get some good answers from knowledgeable people such as yourselves. Anyway, I hope that someone can answer my questions. Thank You! :)
     
  2. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
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    Choosing the optimal wire gauge is a surprisingly difficult task. Lower gauge reduces resistance to support higher current but limits the number of turns and thus the emf and voltage. It's also harder to wind. Too large a gauge and you have too much DC resistance. Lots of voltage but little current. And winding is tedious.

    A useful tool is the table of copper wire properties you can get at Essex or from other mag wire manufacturers. It'll allow you to estimate turns and so on. Figure you'll get less than you calculate though, if you wind by hand.

    One difficult factor is the inductance of the coil you wind. It will produce an impedance in your coil that appears as higher resistance as the operating frequency increases. It may dominate the DC resistance by several fold at higher rpm.

    If you're sure you need your coil to support 500mA or more, that eliminates the smaller gauges from consideration. I'd look for 22 Ga. or larger (lower gauger). That's just a hunch without making any calculations.
     
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  3. Alec_t

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 17, 2013
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    Do you realise that the overall efficiency of your system will be (much) less than cutting out the motor/generator and directly using the electricity from the solar panels/cells?
     
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  4. shortbus

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 30, 2009
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    I foresee OU coming in this thread. :)
     
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  5. THE_RB

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 11, 2008
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    Why? Gearing speed up is very inefficient mechanically, and you have multiple stages (multiple gear sets).
     
  6. Experimentonomen

    Member

    Feb 16, 2011
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    Mods please close this thread! It is OU in disguise.

    Whenever someone mentions a diy generator build using neo magnets, its pretty much guranteed to be one of these free energy believers.
     
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  7. Sensacell

    Well-Known Member

    Jun 19, 2012
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    "Lubricated Magnets" is the giveaway.
     
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  8. KJ6EAD

    Senior Member

    Apr 30, 2011
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    Probably, but that could be avoided if the device were described as an artistic heater (kinetic sculpture if it moves).
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013
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  9. THE_RB

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 11, 2008
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    There's no forum restriction on making a home-made generator for solar or renewable energy use, and the OP has not mentioned Over Unity.

    Are we going to restrict all discussion of building generators now, just in case?

    Building permanent magnet generators etc is one way that people without a lot of electronics experience get enthused about electrical devices and electronics in general.

    We shouldn't turn someone away "just in case".
     
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  10. Art

    Distinguished Member

    Sep 10, 2007
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    Can there be any valid reason for using a solar panel to power a motor to in turn drive a generator?
    It sounds like a project about how to dump energy with friction and heat.
     
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  11. djsfantasi

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 11, 2010
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    As an educational exercise. We did many experiments in school that were of no contemporary practical value. Alas, this may be a driveby post, as the OP has not made another appearance.
     
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  12. THE_RB

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 11, 2008
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    Sure. It could be an easy to understand way of doing voltage-current transformation, like using a 48v solar panel and 48v motor to drive a 12v generator. Motor-generator sets used to be common in industry for DC transformation.

    The multi-RPM rotor suggestion still intrigues me, it might be some attempt to spread the efficient running speed over a large speed range or have some other value.

    Of course people could be right and it could be an attempt at an over-unity machine, but then why bother with having solar panels?

    I think we should consider people as innocent until there is specific proof they are breaking forum rules, especially new posters who might leave forever thinking they are not welcome here. :)
     
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  13. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
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    The policy against over-unity discussion protects the user against his own ignorance and protects the dignity of the forum. Neither of those protections are critical to anyone's safety, compared to the other rules here.

    So I see no reason to not be as lenient as possible.

    IMHO, which counts for nothing, the only time an over-unity thread should be closed is when the OP believes it will actually work and cannot be dissuaded from that. We should have a chance to set them straight first.
     
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  14. Art

    Distinguished Member

    Sep 10, 2007
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    I don't know that I have any position one way or the other,
    but would consider it reasonable, for members to demonstrate that
    in this case, before they invest time. because the object at the end of the
    chain also seems to independently have no regard for friction,
    It does seems like the job for the motor is going to require more
    energy than the solar panel is producing.

    Basically, It would make a member look foolish for investing time into it,
    only to find out later, that there is some light going to be attached to
    the other end of the thing to shine back into the solar panel ;)

    There are some really good natural force generators out there, like the
    ocean current bicycle wheel, and the wind swaying palm tree generator.
    Nature can provide the force without the machine doing magic.
     
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  15. wayneh

    Expert

    Sep 9, 2010
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    There are no others. ;)
     
  16. Transcendamental

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 28, 2013
    12
    1
    It is not an Over Unity generator...I am just trying to see if I can use a high torque motor to spin the magnetic rotors on my machine. It would be similar to using wind power, but instead of the blades spinning the rotors directly, I would be using a solar powered motor instead. I am by no means an electrical engineer, and I am certainly not looking for free-energy...My main question is whether I will encounter significant resistance from the magnets as they rotate over the coils. If you can answer this, or my questions above I would greatly appreciate it. Thank You!
     
  17. Transcendamental

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 28, 2013
    12
    1
    ..."The multi-RPM rotor suggestion still intrigues me, it might be some attempt to spread the efficient running speed over a large speed range or have some other value.

    Of course people could be right and it could be an attempt at an over-unity machine, but then why bother with having solar panels?

    I think we should consider people as innocent until there is specific proof they are breaking forum rules, especially new posters who might leave forever thinking they are not welcome here. :) ".....


    I am first to say that I am an amateur inventor, and have no sustained knowledge of electronics or mechanical engineering. I am only trying to see if this would work hypothetically. It is a little unnerving that so many people would pounce on my thread as if I have committed some sort of travesty to mankind. Nevertheless, I just want to have my questions answered if at all possible. Never were my intentions to upset anyone with talks of Free-Energy, which I had never given the slightest suggestion of in the first place, lol!

    The main purpose of having multiple rotors, is so that there is extra energy built up while the machine is trying to build speed for the TOP rotor assembly. The rotor assemblies below are only there to build speed, by providing extra weight while in forward motion. There will be a spring attached to the rotor with the motor, that will serve as a buffer against the bottom rotor assembly, for any "bounce" or subtle resistance each rotor will encounter as it is starting up. I haven't even built this thing yet, but I am just curious to see if it is worth attempting. I'm not trying to save the world here...those that have tried were silenced anyway, right?

    Anyway, thank you for responding!
     
  18. Transcendamental

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 28, 2013
    12
    1
    I was just kind of busy, lol! This is my first time actually using forums to get answers. Thanks for responding!
     
  19. Transcendamental

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 28, 2013
    12
    1
    I just wanted to see if it would be possible to get the rotors to move, using a high torque, low speed motor. If there is let's say, 30 ft-lbs of force produced by the motor on average, then wouldn't it be safe to say, that if the rotors required only 25, whatever losses from friction there are could be made up with the extra force, and the machine might just work?

    Again, I must stress that I am not an engineer...so I don't know what kind of calculations are involved. That is why I am consulting with you people, lol! Thank You for responding!
     
  20. Transcendamental

    Thread Starter New Member

    Sep 28, 2013
    12
    1

    I'm not worried about efficiency, as of yet. I just want to see if it will work. You think Edison was worried about efficiency? He just wanted to keep the stupid bulb from going out, lol! Thanks for posting though!
     
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