All About Circuits Forum  

Go Back   All About Circuits Forum > Electronics Forums > The Projects Forum

Notices

The Projects Forum Working on an electronics project and would like some suggestions, help or critiques? If you would like to comment or assist others with their projects, this is the place to do it.

Reply   Post New Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-15-2009, 01:45 AM
dmechanic dmechanic is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 4
Default Honda Generator Automatic Voltage Regulator

Hello,
First post here. I've aquired a small Honda portable generator (vintage 1977). The model is EG 1500 (1.5kw output). This generator is equipped with an automatic voltage regulator (avr) that is physically damaged. This particular avr uses the input of 120vac from the stator and apparently rectifies it for use as an output to the brushes to control rotor field current and therefore voltage output. Frequency appears to be regulated by engine rpm and does not appear to be controlled by the avr. The avr assembly is filled with what I believe to be fiberglass resin (or similar) material to seal all the components. This stuff is very difficult to remove and I don't think I can do it without destroying all the internal components. Honda no longer services this regulator and the universal ones are quite expensive. I'd like to recreate a suitable circuit to regulate the generator as a project for my own learning. At a minimum, I would need to rectify 120vac and use the the corresponding dc to drive the rotor field current to maintain 120vac under varying loads. Rotor resistance is 54 ohms. There is also an external cap of 200uF 250WV attached to the original avr. There are 4 wires from the stator for input to the avr (althought I'm not sure all would be required) and the coresponding 2 dc output wires from the avr to the rotor brushes. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-15-2009, 07:57 AM
jj_alukkas's Avatar
jj_alukkas jj_alukkas is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Ernakulam,Kerala,India (+5.5)
Posts: 751
Default

Ohh Boy.. you want to build a 1.5Kw voltage regulator? Components will be quite expensive. Did you try for spares from any one of the new 1.5Kw models? Maybe that might work. And it would be a lot cheaper for you. check about it before you jump in.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-16-2009, 08:58 AM
vks_foe vks_foe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: India
Posts: 50
Send a message via Yahoo to vks_foe
Default

hi,
I'm doing a similar project.. i have to design an AVR for a single phase alternator(220v, <10 KVA).The existing AVRs have a feature of underfrequency shut down... i.e. below a specified frequency, which can be adjusted by a potentiometer...
Kindly suggest me a frequecy to voltage converter IC which is low in cost..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-29-2009, 06:06 PM
nagaloo nagaloo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 29
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jj_alukkas View Post
Ohh Boy.. you want to build a 1.5Kw voltage regulator? Components will be quite expensive. Did you try for spares from any one of the new 1.5Kw models? Maybe that might work. And it would be a lot cheaper for you. check about it before you jump in.
So typically what is in these AVR's that is so expensive that they charge between 200 and 400 dollars for them?

I have 4 Coleman Powermate 5000 watt gens in my shop for repair. There is about 5 or 6 film caps about 10 resistors 2 transistors, some doides of different types, a divice I am told is a switch rated at 400v 10 amp it looks like a scr or voltage regulator (T-220 case) and 2 or 3 electrolitic capacitors.

Just a bunch of junk on a circuit board. Powermate went out of business and my customers are left with a useless machine after only 1 or 2 uses.

I suspose I could draw up the board and try to ID the components but it must be a simple circuit there isnt much to this PCB. Could anyone help trouble shoot it? All 4 have over heated the "switch" device. Or if there is some other way to skin this cat.

If you have any sugestions I can detail this some more.

Stew
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-29-2009, 07:39 PM
SgtWookie's Avatar
SgtWookie SgtWookie is offline
Expert Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the vast midwest of the USA; CST
Posts: 22,030
Default

Stew,
Without a schematic, we won't be much help. It does look like Powermate filed for bankruptcy in March of 2008.

But first, you could simply try to find identifying part numbers on the TO-220 packaged devices. Generating a schematic might not be too difficult seeing as your board has just a couple dozen parts.
__________________
General info:
If you have a question, please start a thread/topic. I do not provide gratis assistance via PM nor E-mail, as that would violate the intent of this Board, which is sharing knowledge ... and deprives you of other knowledgeable input.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-30-2009, 08:45 AM
nagaloo nagaloo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 29
Default

I will do my best to make a diagram of the board and its components. It may possibly work for different gens. It has exciter ac 2 yellow wires that feed a pair of diodes with a common output which after feeding a filtering capacitor end up on one of the leads of the "switch" and a center tap that feeds one of the brushes to the rotating fields. The middle lead on the Switch" feeds the other brush. It has 2 other wires that feed the output voltage from the main stator to the control circuit. I will also post the "switch" info, the guy at the electronics supplier had trouble finding it on his listings. From what I see there are 2 circuits on the board one is for making dc for the rotating fields and the other is to turn the "switch" on and off in relation to the main stator output. I suspect the control circuit has a problem and thats why the "switch" looks fried.
Stew
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-30-2009, 02:18 PM
dmechanic dmechanic is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 4
Default AVR

This is exactly whats going on with the Honda that I originally posted about. Unfortunately, the resin they used to seal all the components prevents me from seeing any of the components for schematic purposes. Like you, I agree that this component does not seem overly complex and that was the reason for my initial post. The generator I have is also set up the same way with a exciter winding that is rectified and then used for the controlling dc rotor current. It also has two wires from the main stator winding for voltage monitoring. So, 4 wires in (2 from exciter winding, 2 from main stator), 2 wires out (dc for rotor current). My suspicion is that the dcv output for rotor current control would be in the range of 12-85v with max 3A current. Unlike a previous post suggesting this is a big deal, like you I don't believe this is nearly as expensive as some here seem to believe. I also concur that the price of these things is rediculous and for those of us with either discontinued parts or bankrupt manufacturers, we have no choice. I hope you can see enough of your regulator to generate a schematic. Thanks for your post.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-31-2009, 04:22 AM
nagaloo nagaloo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 29
Default

It turns out I should be able to get a good pic or print of my PCB. Turns out 3 of what I thought were small caps are maybe varisitors. I got all the junk off the board. I think I will unsolder everything and put it in the scanner. Hopefully someone here will be able to improve it or suggest what might be wrong with the circuits. I just found out today that the local Canadian Tire has a bunch of these gens and would like a solution too. Maybe I will get a chance over the weekend. I will take some pics too.
Stew
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-02-2009, 02:08 AM
nagaloo nagaloo is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 29
Default Pictures & Scans

Here are the components on the board:
R1 Dale CPF2 10k 1% TI 0504 I asume this is a 10k
R2 30k 5%
R3 56k 5%
R4 Rd Yel Wh Br Br Could be the reverse Small low watt
R5 Rd Rd Br Br Br Could be the reverse Small low watt
R6 pot 202 23 with a w no bottoms
R7 not used
D5 Glass no #ís
D6 MCC 3 1N4006
D7 MCC 3 1N4006
D11 MCC 3 60S10
D9 MCC 3 60S10
DB2 MCC DB104 Small bridge rect
C1 2.2uf 250v
C2 Had this on it 100B with a bar over 10 and 103 with 2 dots under 10
C3 470uf 200v
Q1 MPS A06 502
Q2 2N6 515 510
Q3 BU931T CC04L W MRC 449 This had over heated
S1 S2 S3 All the same CNR 10D391K These may be varisitors


I didnt get to test any of this stuff yet. I will need to find part #'s to match if these are not "normal" #'s
R4 & 5 I dont know how to decode these ?

I cant get the "attachments" to work for uploading my files? Any help there?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-02-2009, 02:26 AM
SgtWookie's Avatar
SgtWookie SgtWookie is offline
Expert Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: In the vast midwest of the USA; CST
Posts: 22,030
Default

re: can't get attachments to work
File format is important. Images are preferred in .png format, as they are not "lossy" like .jpg format. There is a size limit of 100k for .png files.
If the files are too large, they won't upload.
.ZIP format files can also be attached; I think they're limited to 1 megabyte.
__________________
General info:
If you have a question, please start a thread/topic. I do not provide gratis assistance via PM nor E-mail, as that would violate the intent of this Board, which is sharing knowledge ... and deprives you of other knowledgeable input.
Reply With Quote
Reply   Post New Thread

Tags
, , , , , ,


Related Site Pages
Section Title
Textbook Selsyn (synchro) motors : Ac Motors
Textbook Tesla polyphase induction motors : Ac Motors
Textbook Stepper motors : Ac Motors


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Voltage Regulator Tester VRC101-B mejdi_electronique General Electronics Chat 4 01-12-2012 12:54 AM
Need help with a wind voltage (diversion) regulator n8ure The Projects Forum 26 02-03-2009 05:41 PM
troubleshooting a voltage regulator deefactorial General Electronics Chat 8 11-19-2008 01:48 AM
Another Solar Charger/Light Project iONic The Projects Forum 2 08-10-2008 12:34 AM
Switching regulator (boost) voltage ripple Tyco The Projects Forum 4 03-21-2007 03:31 PM

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:26 AM.


User-posted content, unless source quoted, is licensed under a Creative Commons Public Domain License.
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.